Alfie Evans 6

[CamomileTeaShotofVodka]

Following on from the last thread. If there's one already please do delete this one.

Remember not to speculate or make negative comments about the family or discussions will be stopped.

Thoughts are with Alfie tonight

Such an important and sensitive topic.

@rhodolia you asked about the hard toy, it’s a little tykes lullaby sea horse. It plays gentle music.

Freshtart people have actually said that to you? I am speechless. Who would DARE to speak like that to a bereaved parent? I sometimes hate this world we live in, when did people become so cruel? and thick

I often find that those brought up with animals and livestock have a much more pragmatic view on life and death, because they see it on a regular basis, there is a saying that if you've got livestock then you've got deadstock, and that is true, sometimes you can find an apparently healthy animal just gone. That is very true and I know this only too well having just done our lambing. The only thing is we always go the extra mile if we have a sick animal. You can never predict the outcome of treatment. Of course Alfie is terminally ill and I don't want to suggest otherwise.
AE's case has affected me very deeply because we had to withdraw life support from my DB. My DM died shortly after that. My DF went on to live a full life through sheer dogged determination but of course he was heart broken at the same time. Some of Tom Evans' actions have been questionable to say the least but he is motivated by grief. After Alfie goes, he and Kate will be left with heartbreak. Everyone else will forget all about it.

They don't want to take him home for peace. TE still maintains that he will recover. It's not safe for Alfie.

Zoflora I'm speechless on your behalf!

derxa people won't forget. You have no right to assume that.

I drove past AH about half an hour ago after going to Sainsburys (opposite AH)
It was very quiet. Some reporters outside and two men holding a banner up. There was a police van outside and then we saw about 9 Police officers walking towards AH (There is a Police station on Eaton Rd just around the corner from AH)

There were so many balloons, ribbons, flowers etc outside AH. There is so much love for this little boy from so many people.
Just such a sad situation.

From his statements this morning it is clear that TE is in complete denial of Alfie's condition - he thinks he could survive for years.

For this reason, I don't see how Alfie can be allowed home. There is no telling what would be done in the name of 'sustaining' him, attempting to feed him, at the very least, seems likely.

I was also struck by how all the statements were framed in 'I' and 'me' when discussing wishes for Alfie's care. There was no 'we'.

Hi all,
Again, as you can see, there have been several deletions on this thread (albeit some for repeating posts rather than breaking guidelines themselves).

We spoke yesterday about the discomfort many MNers feel at being part of the "circus" that surrounds this case, so can we please just re-iterate that we are asking you not to post any speculation (for example re medical treatment, the motivations of medical staff, the motivations of the parents of this child etc) and please do not post any personal comments about the family of this child.

We know that feelings are running high, of course they are, not least with the media coverage taking place at fever pitch, but we are a parenting site, one that supports other parents quite beautifully at their darkest times, and we feel that is where our strengths lie. It would be fantastic if we could play to those strengths as this tragic case unfolds.

Freshtart, endofthelinefinally, Cocoagin, jaseyraex, MadameGrizzly, to you all, for your losses and for your continuing bravery.

@Zoflorabore I read your post it was very moving and in no way offensive.

FFS MNHQ

@YetAnotherHelenMumsnet what was wrong with @Zoflorabore post that you deleted???

MadameGrizzly

I think it's the democratisation of knowledge post-Internet. Everyone is an expert as they can google. If they don't find evidence to support their beliefs, they just google again!

This, 100% 👆👆

We’re in a ‘post-truth’ age now. There are no experts, apparently. The fact that all the medical staff are highly-trained professionals who’ve spent many, many years training and practising means zero. Any random who turns up and spouts bilge must have their utter drivel taken just as seriously as an expert’s properly informed and deeply-considered view. Or so you’d think to look at most of the news coverage.

It is tragic and the parents are in deep denial and grief but they’re delusional. Once upon a time things would never have reached this point but I honestly feel that over the past few years, and especially in the wake of Trump et al, the ability of some of humankind to cope with actual reality is wearing dangerously thin in many ways.

to FreshTart and all on this thread who’ve coped so courageously with unimaginable loss in their lives.

Wow even the post where zoflora said she was "off MN for a while" has been deleted

@Zoraflorabore, yes, that's right, unfortunately your otherwise extremely personal and moving post went because of the comment you made about TE. It was a great shame that your post went, it was lovely. Please don't keep making the same comment, though, as we will have to keep deleting it and we have already lost a number of these threads. Thanks.

MNHQ what on earth are you doing?! Sure, some posts are on the border and are rightly deleted bit there was absolutely nothing in zoflora post that came anywhere close. The covering of your own arse is bordering on ridiculous.

Why delete the post Zoflora made after that though? It wasn't any of the below:

No personal attacks
No posts that break the law
No trolling, misleading or deliberately inflammatory behaviour
No trollhunting
No spamming

Am proud of AH and ashamed of many of my so called "friends".

This irritates me. The ‘oh the NHS are so perfect they are all angels’ crowd are just the other side of the coin to the mob outside the hospital. I suspect this case is actually much more nuanced than the ‘goodies and baddies’ image both sides like to portray and both sides have their share of blame for this mess.

One of my previous jobs was working on an NHS project team which was parachuted in when departments or units had gone so badly wrong they needed to be mothballed started again from scratch.

This means I saw the best of the NHS as the staff recruited to take over were usually the best of the best. But it also meant I saw the absolute worst of the NHS, patients dying horrific deaths, big mistakes, nurses neglecting patients and moving their buzzers out of reach when they don’t want to be bothered, uninterested Matrons too busy playing divide and conquer and bullying their staff to actually do their jobs, doctors who treat their patients like they’re working on a car, not a human being and staff who say ‘the NHS would be a great place to work if it wasn’t for the patients’ and routinely treat them with contempt if they do anything other than remain silent and accept the care they are given regardless of whether they are in pain, uncomfortable, hungry, thirsty or scared.

What we are seeing is the very culmination of a long relationship for Alfie’s family. I do not believe that the fault for this relationship breaking down so badly lies entirely with the family and I think it’s been poorly managed.

Mightymucks
Agree 100%

Sorry for you being deleted Zoflorabore, no need.
There's no consistency in the deletions anyway.

"There are many victories that are worse than a defeat" Mary Ann Evans aka George Eliot

The fact is mighty that we will never know the true reason for the irreconcilable relationship breakdown as AH are bound by confidentiality and we are being given one, very skewed, side of the story.

MNHQ I think unfortunately the threat of any of the thread on this site being lifted for the Daily Mail to use as fodder might put some parents off getting support in "their darkest times"!

Zoflora

The talk guidelines need rewriting, certainly the one linked to in the deletion message, they don't actually cover the reason for the deletion.