Is there a thread about the poisoning of Skripal? [title edited by MNHQ]

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

I've not seen a thread about it at all, but surely there must be?

I am saying that studies on e.g. Sarin have shown that antibodies are specific.

If we have antidotes, it strongly indicates we also have made/own Novichock(s).

Hence, we can no longer point the finger at only Russia making them or possessing them.

Wikipedia is reasonably informative about antidotes and countermeasures for nerve agents and says the U.S have developed antidotes and other counter-measures. As you would expect. It does not imply that each individual variation requires a different antidote. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nerve_agent

Counterpoint: of course the UK and the U.S will be producing nerve agents. How else can they test the results and efficacy of any treatments? How else can they study their qualities and learn how to protect against them?

Counterpoint: of course the UK and the U.S will be producing nerve agents. How else can they test the results and efficacy of any treatments? How else can they study their qualities and learn how to protect against them?

That's fine. You have shown why we can not point the finger at Russia.

All information which I have been able to discover classifies Novichok, along with all other V-series nerve agents as an organophosphate. Not a neurotoxin (the classifications are based in which pathways in the body the chemical acts on). And all the agents (including pesticides and sheep dips, as well as warfare agents) which act on the cholinesterase pathway respond to the same treatment.

So again I ask for the source of information that Novichok is not an organophosphate. Or is classed as a neurotoxin (and if so, which type)

New threadas this one is nearly done.

I have no idea why you are talking about biological weapons such as Botulinum Counterpoint.

There are plenty of reasons to point the finger at Russia.

It hardly take little old me, an arts graduate to boot, to deduce that a research centre into chemical weapons would manufacture samples.

And people can manufacture nerve agents in their homes if they really set their mind to it.

"I have no idea why you are talking about biological weapons such as Botulinum Counterpoint."

Because Counterpoint is a conspiracy theorist with more interest in the conspiracy than the scientific facts.

Either counterpoint is a wide up merchant or is just a bit tin foil hat...

I cannot understand why any reasonable person would seriously think the uk did this. Ok we cant categorically prove the uk didn’t do it but come on...

Exactly Heyduggees, the Russian can also not categorically prove they did not do it. Hence proof being needed and not Boris blustering brainlessly.

My understanding is that Novichok does act on the same enzyme, meditrina. So it’s a case of giving atropine to prevent the agent from binding with any more of the enzyme and then supportive treatment while you wait for the body to regenerate more of the enzyme, which it would do naturally anyway.

As I understand it Novichok differs from some other nerve agents in that it doesn’t respond to some of the drugs which can unbind the nerve agent from ACE.

You’ll probably find atropine in every ambulance and ED in the country. So ‘if we have the antidote we must have produced the toxin’ doesn’t really follow.

The question about 2 chemicals is a good question, meditrina. I’m trying to remember if I’ve read an answer to it somewhere else. Might go and have a look and check.

There are plenty of reasons to point the finger at Russia.

Reasons, yes. But facts?

Pestilential - better Boris than corbyn - at least the former blames someone...

Do you deny Russia is the most likely culprit?

Like Corbyn, I don't deny Russia is the most likely suspect.

As far as I am aware atropine is the generic first line treatment, as I said, it ( or related drugs) could have been administered incidently to treat symptoms.
Counterpoint
Perhaps more specific drugs would have been second line treatment later.

chemm.nlm.nih.gov/na_hospital_mmg.htm#top

Found this from America’s Chem/ toxicology site.

The nerve agent specific treatment it mentions if you click through the link is atropine and pralidoxime. The latter is a binding agent for the excessive acetylcholinesterase produced in nerve agent poisoning.

Yulia has been discharged- breaking news

Brilliant link Nursy

Just a reminder, we are on the new thread

nursy please can you pop that link on to the new thread.

I've shared 'Is Yulia Skripal’s sudden reappearance just a British attempt to limit the damage?' with you from The Independent Daily Edition

The only way to get this thread into my watched threads for reference is to post to it, so I'm sorry, but I am going to do that regardless of it being a zombie thread.