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Is there a thread about the poisoning of Skripal? [title edited by MNHQ]

998 replies

OhYouBadBadKitten · 07/03/2018 13:41

I've not seen a thread about it at all, but surely there must be?

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peridito · 09/04/2018 10:14

I have no idea if that is technically possible. But supposing it was, then you have chemical A (possibly the rarer, more dangerous one) on the door, and chemical B something else somewhere else. Policeman being the only other person who received the double exposure. Still doesn't account for timings, unless exposure to B was only just before collapse.

I suspect that both the Skripals started recovery much sooner than reported.

oh this is all so fascinating ,I find myself not thinking about Yulia and her Dad ( and whatever position the cousin may now find herself in ) but mainly Le Carre ,where are you ?

ChardonnaysPrettySister · 09/04/2018 10:19

FWIW, I listened to the Russian version of the phone and it did seem natural enough.

It sounded uncomfortable, but in a way where the two sides don’t really know what to say and talk over each other and there is a lot to talk about. Also, they both would have been aware that there are other people listening in.

WhatCanIDoNowPlease · 09/04/2018 10:24

Do you think it was her then? I had imagined that she wouldn't be in a position to have enough privacy to make a call without everyone knowing, I thought there would be medical staff everywhere?

ChardonnaysPrettySister · 09/04/2018 10:27

I don’t know if it was her, I don’t know her voice.

But I thought she spoke like someone who knew she had no privacy.

Victoria sounded more unaware, but again I don’t know.

ChardonnaysPrettySister · 09/04/2018 10:28

Also, Victoria recognitised her, and she used several endearment terms, she would have done that if she had any doubts she was speaking to Yulia.

ChardonnaysPrettySister · 09/04/2018 10:31

‘Recognised’, sorry.

JessicaJonesJacket · 09/04/2018 10:45

I think it would be a massive coincidence if the call had been faked and then the next day it's officially announced that the dad is actually recovering (as stated in the phone call).

peridito · 09/04/2018 10:55

That's interesting Chardonnay .Was it you who commented upthread about Russians speaking v differently to English speakers ,and how it only appears stilted to the English ear ?

I've formed opinions listening to the tape and reading the translation but with zero familiarity with the Russian language my opinions are likely uninformed .

Good to have some insight .

BoreOfWhabylon · 09/04/2018 10:59

I really don't think the Skripals recovered much earlier than has been reported.

I'd expect them to have been sedated and ventilated to keep them breathing and given repeated doses of the antidotes until the the nerve agents finally left their systems (this is determined by blood tests). After that they would be gradually allowed to 'wake up', usually over a few hours, and the ventilation discontinued once they were able to breathe for themselves.

Until they are fully awake and breathing it is not possible to assess whether or not any brain damage has occurred. It is also common for there to be a variable period of disorientation/confusion afterwards. This is all standard ICU stuff.

ChardonnaysPrettySister · 09/04/2018 11:02

No, wasn’t me, but I agree with it.

ChardonnaysPrettySister · 09/04/2018 11:05

Oh sorry, Victoria would’t have used the endearment terms. I have another typo in my post above.

OutwiththeOutCrowd · 09/04/2018 11:10

To me, it seems as if the British authorities were caught on the hop, as if someone lower down the hierarchy gave Yulia a phone to use and information was then released into the public domain prematurely.

Like others, I am struck by the apparently simultaneous collapse of both father and daughter, given all the variables involved. That neither seemed to gradually get worse from the time of exposure and the abruptness of the onset of symptoms after such a delay is strange.

I suppose that the easiest explanation is the synchronised collapse was just a weird coincidence to add to the general weirdness of the case.

But has anyone considered that the encapsulating gel may have been rather sophisticated?

In the area of therapeutic drug delivery, carrier gels are being developed which change their properties in response to external stimuli, allowing drugs to be released in a controlled manner.

So I’m wondering whether the gel that was smeared on the door handle might be of this type.

As for the trigger in this situation, the only thing I could come up with is radiofrequency radiation from their mobile phones and phoning them both simultaneously so they pick up and expose their fingertips at the same time.

Maybe it was all a piece of attention-seeking, macabre theatre rather than a straightforward assassination attempt.

Yes, you can tell me I’ve been watching too many movies!

peridito · 09/04/2018 11:21

As for the trigger in this situation, the only thing I could come up with is radiofrequency radiation from their mobile phones and phoning them both simultaneously so they pick up and expose their fingertips at the same time

Not sure I understand this ( radiofrequency radiation from their mobile phones ? expose their fingertips at the same time? to what ? ) but like your inventive thinking !

DonkeyOil · 09/04/2018 11:37

Was passing Zizzi's early this morning and saw an Initial Cleaning Services van parked right outside. Maybe they're going to tender for the decontamination contract!

counterpoint · 09/04/2018 18:01

I'd expect them to have been sedated and ventilated to keep them breathing and given repeated doses of the antidotes until the the nerve agents finally left their systems

If we have antidotes, it means we have developed/produced the toxin.

Heyduggeesflipflop · 09/04/2018 18:08

Counterpoint - we have antidotes to snake venom but nature produces the poison. I don’t follow your logic?

Are you saying we did it?

PistFump · 09/04/2018 18:11

I haven't read the full 940+ posts on this thread, but has it been considered that this could have been a possible failed murder / suicide attempt? Sources close to skirpal say his life was a mess and he wanted back to Russia but they wouldn't have him, he's lost his wife and son already... obvious speculation but to me it is a possibility.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 09/04/2018 18:35

Lots of things have been considered, most of them very unlikely.

Russians are now saying the chemical attack in Syria is fake.

OP posts:
BoreOfWhabylon · 09/04/2018 19:22

@OhYouBadBadKitten. Am having difficulty posting so have sent a PM

counterpoint · 09/04/2018 19:23

Counterpoint - we have antidotes to snake venom but nature produces the poison. I don’t follow your logic?

Aaahh. Clearly you do not know how these things work.

We only have antidotes to snake venom precisely, and only because, we have milked snakes and have their venom (toxin). In large amounts, usually. Get it? We must first have the venom/toxin.

Unless we ourselves have synthesized or stockpiled Novichock(s) or can make them in enough quantity to inject mice, or horses or whatever poor species, in order to produce the antidote then we can not possibly do what you suggested which is keep injecting the Skripals with antidote till they get better.

If we have Novichocks ourselves, well ... this is the crux ... it's not the Russians only, is it? We are suspect!

Heyduggeesflipflop · 09/04/2018 19:23

Fist pump - if I was going to commit suicide my first choice wouldn’t be an advanced weapon that needs to be manufactured in a government laboratory!

I suspect there are less convoluted ways to top oneself...

counterpoint · 09/04/2018 19:25

This is looking like we are trying to justify continuing supporting Turkey to invade/destroy Syria and prevent the Kurds from establishing some self-determination.

Heyduggeesflipflop · 09/04/2018 19:28

Counterpoint

I would expect our secret services to acquire foreign poisons and biological weapons so that our own scientists can develop countermeasures.

On the one hand you have Russia - a country infamous for invading other nations (Crimea and Ukraine) but fake news’OMG they didn’t and highly suspected to be the reason why Assad has broken through in Syria. Russia also poisoned litvinenko a few years ago on the streets of London.

All that being so, are you really saying that it is just as likely we did this ourselves. I’m sorry but that’s an astonishing suggestion

PistFump · 09/04/2018 19:30

@Heyduggeesflipflop - he's an ex-spy with beef with Russia. I theorise that he wanted to make it look like Russia dunnit. Whomever dunnit hardly did a professional job of it.

Heyduggeesflipflop · 09/04/2018 19:36

Fist pump - you haven’t answered my question - you don’t casually murder or commit suicide with an advanced weapons grade substance. Where did he get it, the local boots!!?