Is there a thread about the poisoning of Skripal? [title edited by MNHQ]

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

I've not seen a thread about it at all, but surely there must be?

Yes, I think you must be correct - but it's just hard to imagine how that situation would have come about, given that Mr Skripal's own vet contacted the police immediately after hearing of his collapse to alert them to the presence of the animals, and, furthermore, that a lot of people were milling around at the house in the following days collecting samples and searching for clues.

It's odd. The Metro article says the vet offered to help and that a neighbour said the pets were taken away but the article doesn't actually say the vet took them or that it had been confirmed by any official source that the pets were taken away.
I'm sure I read an interview this week where the vet said when he was finally allowed access the cat was so dehydrated it had to be put down but he didn't say when that happened or if the cat was tested for poison.

I would have thought, given the circumstances, that the animals would have been quickly removed, quarantined and observed/tested whilst still alive.

Yes, all very strange. And the poor Skripals - as if they didn't have enough to contend with!

Viktoria : Hello?

Alleged Yulia : Hello. Do you hear me?

Viktoria : Yes, I hear you.

Alleged Julia : It is Julia Skripal

Viktoria : Oh, Yulka [diminutive of Yulia] it's you! I recognize from your voice that it is you, but you can not understand it. So they gave you a phone, right?

Alleged Julia : Yes, yes

Viktoria : Thank you God! Yulyash [diminutive of Yulia] is everything alright with you?

Alleged Yulia : All right, all right

Viktoria : Look, if I get a (British) visa tomorrow, I'll come to you on Monday [19659007] Alleged Julia : Vika, nobody will give you the visa

Viktoria : Well, I thought so too.

Alleged Julia : Very likely.

Victoria : If they give it, you must tell me if I may visit you or not, tell me

Alleged Yulia : I think no, there is Now such a situation, we will clarify it later.

Viktoria : I know it, I know everything

Alleged Julia : Later we will have it sorted later, everything will be fine, we'll see later.

Viktoria : Is it your phone? ?

Alleged Yulia : It's a temporary phone. Everything is fine, but we'll see how it goes on, we'll decide later. You know how the situation is here. Everything is fine, everything is solvable, everyone (he and her father) is recovering and living.

Viktoria : Sure! Is everything alright with your dad?

Alleged Julia : Everything is fine. He is resting now and sleeping. The health of everyone is fine, there are no irreparable things. I will be released soon. Everything is fine

Viktoria : Kisses, my hare

Alleged Yulia : Bye

I've listened to the recording of this and it does seem an odd conversation .Yulia's contributions could almost have been lifted from earlier ,pre poisoning ,conversations .

Although I suppose if the conversation were falsified one might expect a better ,clearer job to have been done .

Writing in the Sunday Times, Mr Johnson said the Kremlin had made a "cynical attempt to bury awkward facts beneath an avalanche of lies and disinformation". www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43686718
www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/boris-johnson-russias-torrent-of-absurdity-is-soaked-up-by-an-infantile-corbyn-q29dw6qjj

Which about matches, the Kremlin said Mr Johnson had made a "cynical attempt to bury awkward facts beneath an avalanche of lies and disinformation".

The lies, disinformation, bullying and propaganda are so high at the moment, nobody knows the truth. The attacks on Corbyn have become so personal and aggressive that the concealed truth must be really ugly.

Another chemical attack in Syria. I'm feeling cynical because a slightly rabid twitter guy predicted this last week, as the next logical step.

The phone call with Yulia is slightly stilted. However, it is a translation from Russian and Russians really do speak in a different way to us.

Although I suppose if the conversation were falsified one might expect a better, clearer job to have been done

That assumes Russia really wants to fool people. Their behaviour throughout has suggested that they do not want their denials to be credible, presumably as a warning to other Russian ex-pats. They have not at any point acted the way one would expect them to do if they were not behind this attack.

The Syria situation is, of course, also fuelled by Russia. It is in Putin's interests to keep the war going and Assad in power in order to stop a pipeline being built from Qatar to Europe. Gas and oil is Russia's only real source of hard currency with 80% of their gas exports going to Europe. If that pipeline is built it will reduce Russia's exports to Europe and reduce Russia's influence - they will lose their ability to bully countries by threatening to cut off their gas supply.

If that pipeline is built it will reduce Russia's exports to Europe

That was aborted some 5 years ago due to the unreliability of Turkey.

prh47 how are the Russian meant to act? What if they did not do it?

What if the oil in the Golan Heights has something to do with the Syrian war? What is Turkey up to? What is Iran up to? Are they a hostile nation or doing ok and have recovered from the ayatollah and the gulf wars?

Nothing happens in isolation, what would the Russians really gain from trying to assassinate Sergei? Or would they gain more from assassinating Yulia? Or would someone else gain more from discrediting them?

For an aggrieved party, Boris is throwing a lot of shit in the air.

Boris is shameless.
The. BBC as well carrying this as a prominent news item with the headline “Corbyn is the Kremlin’s Useful Idiot”. It would be credible if they had come out last week with a “Boris lied” story equally promoted. I don’t know where they are coming from lately.

I agree pestilential, the Corbyn smears lately are ridiculous ( and I am not usually a Labour voter)

what would the Russians really gain from trying to assassinate Sergei

The same as they gained from assassinating Litivinenko and others they have assassinated over the years. Silencing internal dissent and sending a message to other expatriates.

The Mail (I know!) has an interesting piece about the Novichok being adapted to have a delayed effect

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5590067/Nerve-agent-used-poison-Russian-spy-designed-4-hours-work-allow-culprits-flee.html

It's looking more like Boris is Erdogan's useful idiot!

Well, after all, Boris Johnson is part Turkish by birth.

I object strongly to this born-liar Boris thrusting Brexit at us and siding us with the women-oppressing Saudis and Turkey.

I hope this is a step too far for Boris and those propping him up are exposed as the real enemies of the UK!

Delving a little more into Boris Johnson's Turkish background - it seems his grandfather was an enemy of Ataturk's modernization of Turkey.

Well, who else is an enemy of Ataturk's modernization of Turkey? The present Turkish leader, Erdogan! Seems that Boris' ancestors and Erdogan would be on the same side - taking Turkey back to the dark ages.

Furthermore, it's also been reported that Boris' Turkish cousin knows he's not very honest:

"Boris Johnson's Turkish cousin says the leader of the Brexit camp has turned into “such a Little Englander” he is no longer “being very honest about his views”.

Mr Johnson is the great-grandson of the newspaper editor and Turkish Government minister Ali Kemal, who was assassinated in 1922 after falling foul of Mustafa Atatürk who founded the modern Turkish state."

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/even-boris-johnsons-turkish-cousin-doesnt-trust-what-he-says-about-the-eu-a7040071.html

I wouldn’t bet on it Counterpoint. It all seems to slide off Boris like water off a ducks back.

Boreofwhabylon
Interesting article. It is all a bit too coincidental?
Two specialist Drs just happened to be on duty when they were admitted. Then Porton Down immediately identified it as Novichok. Now it’s, special Novichok that doesn’t work for four hours! They smeared it on the door on Sunday because a postman could have been infected which would have meant they had to reapply it. However not only Sergei but Yulia, then some hours later DS Bailey were contaminated. Also didn’t Bailey drive straight to the hospital because he felt unwell after being at the house? Was that four hours?

DM usual appalling standards of journalism.

A remarkable series of coincidences indeed.

As a side, has anyone read Mein Kampf? The descriptions of propaganda are enlightening.

It’s a bit of a stretch for the DM to report that as ‘special’ novichok isn’t it? Or watering it down.

They’ve basically just used a different drug delivery system with a slower absorption time haven’t they? That might be for a number of reasons. It does suggest that it’s been developed for targeted use rather than for mass chemical warfare though.

It does leave you slightly more open to cocking it up though, as demonstrated by the fact that both Sergei and Yulia are still alive.

The biggest piece of luck in the whole scenario is that they were in public when they became seriously ill. If they’d decided to stay home that afternoon it would probably have ended very differently.

I think the scenario with the door handle was that they would stay home as they were going back in the house rather than wandering around Salisbury spreading the stuff. Them doing that has complicated it considerably in terms of its impact.
Does beg the question, why not the quick acting one then?

The questions about the interval between exposure to the agent and the onset of symptoms (and how they occurred at exactly the same time in two quite different bodies) is one that I have been wondering about all along.

If there is scientific evidence about a chemical and metabolic reason for this, then that hasn't been made public, but might be one of the aspects of the evidence shared with the international community.

I don’t know that that much thought went into it beyond the fact that it was an accessible surface that he would have been guaranteed to touch but wouldn’t have necessarily been touched by a lot of other people.

Would having it in a gel form mean it’s less likely to degrade on contact with water? Because otherwise it does seem like a bit of a miscalculation to leave it on a front door in the SW of England in the middle of winter.

prh47 - your suggestion that Russia are posturing and their comments aren't intended to be taken seriously ,hadn't ocurred to me .

meditrina - v puzzling about onset of symptoms in 2 v different people .

Early on it was reported that Yulia was airlifted to hospital by helicopter and that her father went in an ambulance .

Supposing this is accurate I'm wodering a) why only one was airlifted ( guessing helicopter capacity ? ) b) how they chose Yulia and c) if more rapid treatment was a factor in her recovery .
Or perhaps the speedy response initially to Yulia alerted pp to presence of a chemical poison and hastened the use of appropriate treatment .

rafa someone asked what I thought was a damned good question earlier in the thread, about whether Novichoks -which can be readily transported as two chemicals - actually need to be mixed before administration (if assassination weapon).

I I have no idea if that is technically possible. But supposing it was, then you have chemical A (possibly the rarer, more dangerous one) on the door, and chemical B something else somewhere else. Policeman being the only other person who received the double exposure. Still doesn't account for timings, unless exposure to B was only just before collapse.

I suspect that both the Skripals started recovery much sooner than reported. Because surely they would start the interviews / de-brief asap and as soon as it is known they can talk they become a serious liability to whoever did it.

I suspect that too Tammy.

I also have a feeling that Yulia wasn't supposed to have a phone.