Is there a thread about the poisoning of Skripal? [title edited by MNHQ]

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

I've not seen a thread about it at all, but surely there must be?

It's all gone quiet from Boris&May after the rubble rousing act of a few weeks ago.

As I said before, thank goodness for the tolerance shown by Putin to our government's shenanigans.

How many of those countries raised to the brink of destroying their relationships with Russia are now going to be kicking themselves that they trusted our lying duo?

Boris&May, please concentrate on finishing this Brexit-crisis as soon as possible so that we can start rebuilding our country again.

All that has happened is the head of Porton Down has said they cannot say where the nerve agent was made - not surprising it is a chemical and they don't have the package. He still says it is a nerve agent created in Russia.

The scientists are not the only thread. Police and security services have presumably found evidence as well.

Either Russia did it or Russia has lost control of some pretty nasty nerve agents. Either way they have a certain amount of culpability.

I don’t think it’s on main news. But over 30 response vehicles and hasmat people were seen attending a house in a sleepy village in Somerset today. Seems rather odd.

Where did you hear that, Windy? And which sleepy village?

Its on the Somersetlive website. It’s a local online newspaper.

North Curry, Somerset.
Domestic incident www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/somerset-news/doctors-service-issues-update-complex-1419640

North Curry. Something about being concerned for the welfare of a man.

Seems rather odd.

The local fb pages have eye witness accounts.

That news report has been changed from the report earlier today. Residents saw hasmat suits.

All that has happened is the head of Porton Down has said they cannot say where the nerve agent was made - not surprising it is a chemical and they don't have the package. He still says it is a nerve agent created in Russia

No P Down have refused to say that it is from Russia. All they have said ( under pressure) is that it is “ of a type developed in Russia”. It was developed in the 1980s and it was claimed by OPWC that all Russia’s stocks had been destroyed some years ago.
This just makes a liar of Boris who said that Porton Down had said it was definitely from Russia. Foreign office have today taken down that post. You may be right lornats that there may be other evidence but I think at this stage that should be said, perhaps without disclosing what it is. That way other allies who have seen that evidence could confirm it. Why not?

I wonder how Yulia is, and her Dad?

This just makes a liar of Boris who said that Porton Down had said it was definitely from Russia.

You are right, nursy.

From the BBC website:
"Labour has called for an investigation into whether Boris Johnson "misled" the public over Russian involvement in the Salisbury nerve agent attack.

Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn earlier implied the foreign secretary had exaggerated the findings of the UK's defence laboratory, Porton Down."

Sadly, it seems we have a pathological liar in charge of our most sensitive office. Boris is leading us into total chaos with his lies; from Brexit, to diplomatic isolation now. He is this country's enemy, not Putin.

Looks like Boris has been re-reading his Nazi rule book, again, and following instructions from Goebbels:

The essential English leadership secret does not depend on particular intelligence. Rather, it depends on a remarkably stupid thick-headedness. The English follow the principle that when one lies, one should lie big, and stick to it. They keep up their lies, even at the risk of looking ridiculous.

Boris is a bloody liability. Why he has not been sacked I do not know ( I suspect she dare not do it for fear of triggering an election via the Brexiteers)
However I’m not sure Putin is a friend. He is clever, I grant you and a better politician than many we have in the West at the moment.
It’s a shame we didn’t keep talking to Russia after Gorbachev. We took our eyes off them after 911. Too busy running after the US and pursuing a crazy foreign policy. We have to talk to them and get relations on a better footing. They have the pipelines with Europe’s energy, they have a close relationship with the emerging superpower China. Are they expansionist with eyes on the old soviet satellite states? Looking at the rise of the far right in the east of Europe I wonder how much they have to do with stirring up that dissent. Putin has that kind of “hard man” appeal to those people. I see it causing trouble.

Yes Counterpoint. Boris thinks if he tells his fibs with enough bluster, charm and eccentricity everyone will be so delighted by him he will get away with it. Badly brought up!

OYBBK mentioned the exact Porton Down wording much earlier in the thread - they have always said publicly that it was 'of a type made in Russia' (so MN noticed the discrepancy way before SKY).
I think Patriarchy noted absence of reference sample as the reason they could not give absolute assurance beyond that, but that indicators of manufacture could be strong.

I note that Russia (a State Party) is content with OPCW actions, standards and its procedures, and fully engaged.

Boris being a manipulative duplicitous liar does not negate the probably intelligence that has convinced so many other countries.

The OPWC as I said earlier, will also not apportion blame to any particular State. The most it can do I believe is to independently verify what was used and ask to visit Russia once more, if that's where they believe it came from.

probable not probably!

It seems a curious quote to choose from Goebbels about Churchill, given Goebbels was the propaganda minister. Perhaps apt though.

Boris being a manipulative duplicitous liar does not negate the probably intelligence that has convinced so many other countries

I have a problem with believing our government when it nods and winks and says there is “ intelligence” to prove it! As I said. Could they not release at least some of this intelligence. It is conceivable that they have some that may have convinced other countries but governments do “sex up” intelligence to fit the agenda.
It was interesting to see so many countries abstain on Russia’s call for an enquiry rather than vote with the U.K.

I feel suspicious about the whole episode and think opportunists could have manipulated the situation to show how strong and stable May is and how we are a big player still diplomatically at a time when the U.K. was really being shown to fail in these areas.
It’s a dangerous and short term way to deal with Russia and Putin in particular.

It’s gone very quiet about Yulia situation and if she wants the Russian ambassador to visit?

They may well not be able to release intelligence without compromising sources. After all, look at the unfortunate life expectancy of some of their sources through the years.

They've released it to other governments agencies who have been, it appears fairly well convinced in general.

I'm not one to blindly believe the government, I marched against the Iraq war, I continue to march against the decisions that this current government keep making, but when other countries listen, I tend to wonder what it is that has been enough to convince them. I don't know that it is Russia, how could I possibly be so arrogant as to declare that it is, but it still seems the most probable antagonist.

OYBK
We were on the same March :)
I agree - there must be convincing intelligence mustn’t there? However very , very suspicious, especially as what they have may have been over exaggerated for domestic politics and retaining UK position on world stage reasons.
I would like them to release what they can. The raw intelligence, not some dodgy dossier!

And/ or perhaps have other countries back this up saying “ yes we have seen it”. Sources must have already been compromised and pulled out if this has been shared as widely as we suspect. If it’s listening intelligence from GCHQ why can we not publish it?
Otherwise, I think with Boris and his antics we are beginning to look a bit dodgy.

It’s gone very quiet about Yulia situation and if she wants the Russian ambassador to visit?

We know nothing about her condition, other than she is out of immediate danger and 'talking'. We do not know if she is capable of coherent speech or thought.

If it is listening intelligence, they won't want to give away anything that alerts people to how we are listening.

Its frustrating, I get it. I do not trust our government with its extremely dodgy funders and links to shady companies that manipulate our elections. But logic suggests that on this one thing, they are probably correct.

Well indeed, if you're looking at governments lying, the Russian government under Putin has very specific form for assassinating expat Russians by poison and lying about it.

Putin still denies Russia has any connection to the murder of Litvinenko, despite the fact Lugovoi and Kovtun were traced all the way back to Russia because even the aircraft seats they sat in were contaminated by the Polonium.

In fact – and this will be strangely familiar – Lugovoi appeared at a press conference blaming British security services. Russia refused a British request for his extradition and he's now a Russian MP.

Alexander Litvinenko: Profile of murdered Russian spy
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19647226

What I didn't realise until reading up on this just now, is that Kovtun flew from Moscow to Germany shortly before poisoning Litvinenko in London, and that he left traces of Polonium in Germany, too – seats in cars, his ex-wife's sofa. So he was clearly already contaminated by the Polonium before putting it in Litvinenko's tea.

The Litvinenko Polonium-210 case – German experiences.
www.iaea.org/inis/collection/NCLCollectionStore/_Public/41/092/41092724.pdf

The assassination of Alexander Litvinenko: 20 things about his death we have learned this week
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/11381789/The-assassination-of-Alexander-Litvinenko-20-things-about-his-death-we-have-learned-this-week.html

The above sources are all from well before the attack on the Skripals, BTW.

So while I get why the British security services can't share raw intelligence as OYBBK explains, just going on the above we can see that Russia has to be very, very high on the list of suspects. It's even responded to the poisoning of Skripal in exactly the same way it did to the poisoning of Litvinenko.

All of which is caveated by the fact we the public still don't know exactly what happened in Salisbury. As I said before, evidence might change that assessment – bluster from Russia won't.