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'MSbP, Lost Mothers 3'

356 replies

kalex · 22/07/2004 20:24

A new thread for Bunglie, Cheeseball, Spudbrain and Postsue.

With my love and best wishes to them all.

God I sound like a greeting card

OP posts:
mummytosteven · 22/07/2004 23:16

bump

Bunglie · 23/07/2004 09:31

Wow you beat me to it....you really are a lovely lot, give yourselves a hug
((((((((HUG))))))))))

Bunglie · 23/07/2004 09:47

Do you think it would be an idea if I put an update of everyone (with their permission of course), so that it is easier for people to follow?

Bunglie · 23/07/2004 09:53

This was my first ever posting, look how things have developed, changed with your help?

I am a mother of two, 15 years ago I was accused of having Munchausens-Syndrome-By-Proxy. I had to go through a criminal trial at which I was acquitted, with 'No case to answer' and as a result I had my children removed, made wards of court and finally adopted. They were 2 and 3 when they left me, I was given contact that I maintained twice weekly for 2 years and then the court released them for adoption, they were adopted when they were 6 and 7 years old. I was lucky and was granted an 'open' adoption. My son is 18 now but they have new names and I am no longer on their birth ctificates. I have since been proven not to have Munchausens or Munchausen-by proxy. The man who insisted to the social services that I had it was Professor Roy Meadows. He never interviewed me, my doctors or even saw any of my medical records. he wote his report based on an interview with my step-mother and a social worker. I know I was not imprisoned like some poor women as I was acquited, but the wardship hearing is a civil hearing, in private and done on the 'balance of probabilities'. I was naive, I thought I would get my children back and that it was a ghastly mistake. I was wrong. My children are beautiful and I love them, but they have had problems with their adopted parents. Up until a few weeks ago I never told anyone about this as I had been labled and was ashamed and thought that people would believe that I had this illness (I knew nothing about it at the time as it was a new thing). I now know that I am not the only person in this situation. What do I do now, is there anyone I can tell my story to so that I can right this wrong? I hear about the women being released from jail, but what about people like me? Professor Meadows evidence destroyed my life but more importantly he has destroyed my childrens lives. I am glad that it has been shown that he was not correct in a lot of cases but I do not feel vindicated. I do not want revenge or anything I just want someone to know the truth. I would never hurt my children and he made me out to be a liar. I have a very rare illness (only 14 people in the country have it) and at the time it had not been diagnosed, it has now, but for 5 years I could not get any treatment as the doctors thought I had this Munchausen Syndrome. Based on that it was then stated that I must have had Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy as my little girl developed an illness and I was accussed of causing it. She is fine now but at the time I believed in the social services and that they would not take my children away. I think the government, not the General Medical Council should hold an enquirey as to how this man destroyed so many lives for so long. Is there anyone in the same position as me, who can help?

Bunglie · 23/07/2004 10:10

I posted this only 6 months ago on 20th January, it seems almost like a lifetime ago. It was posted when I was feeling 'down', the day after my dd's 17th Birthday. It is hard to believe that this coming January she will be 18.

I know that I have thanked you all many times in the past for your help and sensible advice. Without it Iwould not be in a position today of being able to 'smile' at the world.

Spudbrain, I shall try to find her story, in the meentime knowing that you have been there and the advice she received gave her some 'self respect', she was able to move on with her life and is at the present time setting up a new home with a new life. She has said "without knowing that there are some people in this world who don't believe I am a "monster, this gave me the courage to say 'no' and start afresh".
This is posted with Sudbrains permission from an email that she sent me. She does not have a computer at the moment and goes to the library, but she is going to try and keep in touch and keep us informed of her progress.

So you see MN's you do have a lot to be proud of. You have given 3 people help, (sorry I have not yet heard from Cheeseball, so I can't post anything yet, but I know she too is grateful). You have picked us up when we are down and set us back on the right track when we have doubted ourselves. I wish that Mumsnet had been around 15 years ago, but you have shown me , not to look back but to look forward, and that is where I am going and I hope that with your help Postsue, Spudbrain and our dear Cheeseball will all find resolution and peace of mind one day.

Twiglett · 23/07/2004 10:35

message withdrawn

Janh · 23/07/2004 13:57

The stepmonster has such a lot to answer for, Bunglie dear. Until I reread your first post I didn't realise that she was in the thick of things right from the start. I do hope she gets her knuckles rapped at some point.

Love and best wishes to all from me too (another greetings card!!! )

Freckle · 23/07/2004 14:30

This is a dreadful story and I just do not know how you coped with having your children removed from you, through no fault of your own. Those that are responsible should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves. I hope you manage to develop a warm and loving relationship with your children and that they know that none of this was your fault.

heartinthecountry · 23/07/2004 16:19

I only picked up this thread yesterday - spent hours last night reading back through the threads but still don't feel i know the half of it. It breaks my heart that any mother should have to endure what you guys have . You are all amazing.

Beetroot · 23/07/2004 17:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Bunglie · 23/07/2004 18:05

Thanks Beety and everyone,and Kalex for starting this 'new' thread. I hope before it gets too big we shall all have some good news to post.

Cheeseball is well. She is still in the same living situation and I sent her a card as it was her 'anniversary', (the kind of anniversary only a mother who had had a child removed would remember). I wanted to tell her that we are here for her so I sent it not only from myself but from you lot aswell, I hope that was OK. I got an email this pm saying that it was appreciated and she did not think that anyone would remember. Her email said, "I cried when I woke up, I cried when I read your card and now I am crying as I type this because I am happy to know that at least one person cares". I thought that was rather sad, because we all care.

edam · 23/07/2004 18:36

Hi Bunglie. Wow, you are right, things have really moved on in the last six months.
Please do tell Cheeseball there are lots of people who care about her and want things to get better.
So glad to hear about Spudbrain, that's brilliant news.
Hugs to all of you ? and to all the other lost mothers out there.
BTW, have you bought yourself any Green and Black's yet? Have just remembered I've got a tub in the fridge

Bunglie · 24/07/2004 10:51

Today is the 'letter writing day' to my ds.
I need help here guys?
How about just a chatty letter about what I have been up to since I saw him last, and that I look forward to seeing him again soo, reminding him of the lovely day we allhad together????
I don't think I should tell him I know he is moving etc or he will think I have been spying on him. What do you write to a 19 year old?
He did tell me he is taking 3 months off work to go travelling, so I could ask him about his travel plans and if he needs anything, good or bad idea....H-E-L-P

mummytosteven · 24/07/2004 11:02

hi bunglie - i'm a bit useless at letter writing but i'll put in my two pennorth!

I think you're right not to talk about things he's not told you directly. I agree with asking him about his travel plans/mentioning the nice day you had. I also think maybe if you put something along the lines - you know he must be having a difficult time coming to terms with all the changes in his life/conflicting info he may have been getting, but that you will always be there for him if he wants to get in touch, even if he doesn't feel ready atm.

do you know what sort of musical he is into/if he is likely to be going to any festivals, as you could ask him about that.

good luck with the letter.

SofiaAmes · 24/07/2004 14:55

I think that you should talk about what is going on. Mention that you know that your dd got the letter and that you were very sorry that that happened as you had been working very hard to make sure it didn't. Also tell him that you have heard from the ap's that he and your dd do not wish to have contact with you at the moment. Say that you understand if that is his wish, but that you love him and her very much and will always be there for them and that the information pack (maybe make mention of what is in it) regarding how they were put into care and then adopted is always available when he is ready to read it. Perhaps also stress that this pack has information that no one else still has.

I think there has been too much pretending to the children that everything is ok and that there isn't this "thing" that happened 15 years ago. No one else is ever going to tell them the truth or talk to them straight about it. I really think you should and now is the time.

You could then do a little chatting and offer help with the travelling.

What does everyone else think?

Bunglie · 24/07/2004 15:00

I knew I could trust MN'sto giveme sensible advice. Sofia your advice I thinkis spot on. It is what I have been wanting to write but thought that I might appear too pushy. You have just reassured me that my 'gut' feeling was to 'tell him the truth' about what the AP's have done. I do not need to be nasty about them, but as you say let him know and I hope that he is mature enough to understand, if not the letter will be there for him to re-read when he is ready.
THANK YOU

sleeplessmum2be · 24/07/2004 16:00

So pleased to hear the news for spudbrain and cheese ball and hugs to you all!!!

Bungliea as always my heart goes out to you and your children and will give you my advice for what it is worth!

I agree with the others about a letter but i think maybe you should call the information pack something else something a little more personal perhaps 'a diary of a mothers (heartbreaking?)loss!' explain that it has all sorts of relevant papers, newspaper articles, doctors, social workers letters whatever is there. Try to keep it loving and show that you have kept all this for them to have one day. That it is theirs when and if they want it. That you are always, but always here when and if they want you, (and g-d you want them!!! dont be afraid to tell them!!!) That they can choose the terms. That if they do not wish to discuss the past or see the documents thats their call too. That you just want to be there for them on their terms. I have a feeling that their lives have never been about thier wishes needs and desires and more about having to live by others rules, maybe the best gift you can give them is the true unconditional love that you so dearly wish to provide. I would say just stay off the whole subject until they are ready and want to ask and hear about it. They have both of them had everyone else tell them stuff as and when they have not wanted or needed to hear it. The real truth of thier feelings is in the last meeting you shared, the reciprocal love and warmth was their and will return in full in time. Just keep up the patience!!!!! Sorry for getting so opinionated just hope it helps !!!!! Much love, encouragement, support etc AKA Stace

Bunglie · 24/07/2004 16:26

Thankyou, I have printedoff this page sowhen I come to write it this evening I have all of your suggestions.
Wow! I love Mumsnet, and I love you all to.
I would like to have a big party one day, with both my children and you would ALL be invited because I KNOW that I would not have been asking you this today if you had not helped me 6 months ago.

Edam, pass that organic ice cream this way please, I can't find any here so I know you wont mind shareing, ill bring my own spoon (table spoon!!)

Bunglie · 25/07/2004 20:05

I tried writing 'the letter' last night, but everytime I started I ended up in tears, with splodges on the paper, as I thought of the wonderful day we had. How he said he would like to come fishing with me , and I could go on. Then to be told by the AP's that he does not want to see me.....
Well need I say more
Do you think that my true feelings come accross in my writing and he will read between the lines IYKWIM.
Do you think I should have an 'extra shot' of morphine and deaden my mind?
Oh what is this bear with little brain going to do?
What do you do when you need to write such an important, honest letter and your emotions get the better of you?
Bunglie needs some straight talking from some sensible MNers, and I know you all are.
I must write this letter. You have read enough of my rambelings in the last six months to know that I write as I think. I am not a very good writer, I know that but I do try my best and it seems that my emotions are getting the better of me at the moment....H-E-L-P, what do I do? [sad}
I now know what I want to write, it is just that I get so upset everytime I start and I am afraid that he will pick up on that in my letter, I don't want him to be upset or feel under any kind of pressure.
Go on, tell Bunglie it is about time she grew up and pulled herself together....give it to me, be honest and tell me I am just being silly. I can tell myself but it has no effect, Ineed you lot to tell me and then I can stop blubbering like a six year old who has been told to to eat her beetroot!

kalex · 25/07/2004 20:09

Oh Sweetie, I feel so much for you, but unfortunaltely have no words to help you in this horrible situation, please know that I really respect, love and care for you so much. Please look after yourself, if I knew you in RL, I would be in my car right now, to come and give you a big cuddle. Kalex

OP posts:
Bunglie · 25/07/2004 22:17

Today I received a lovely but very sad email that I would like to share some of with you, in the hope that you can lend your support. It is about a parent who has gone through something very similar to Cheesball, Spudbrain and Postsue and who is trying to organise a rally in London.(get your tipple now as I am afraid it is a l-o-n-g Bunglie posting, but I hope you find it worth reading once your little angels are in bed

"..............I am promoting this rally through my website www.socialservicesabuse.com and its sister support group P.A.C.T, Parents and Children Together. These were set up after my partner lost her latest child, being my step son, to the draconian social services and family courts system. She had previously lost two to forced adoption through the same system. Not being the biological father I have found that I have no rights and no say. The local social services have used my partners learning disability and low IQ against her, saying she unable to parent due to this, however have never properly assessed her capability.
Through our fight for our son, even though I am not his biological father, I feel every inch that he is my son. We found a great many others all with similar or identical stories, and worse ladies who lost children in the 50's, 60's, and early 70's just because they were unmarried teenagers.
The system of child removal and so called 'local authority care' is failing. It is leaving children with abusers, heroin addicts who will starve their child to feed their habit, and neglect their child, alcoholics who will do the same. Obsessive criminals who think of no-one but themselves. Yet people who love their children, and will see nothing wrong or abusive come to them, are the ones that are losing them. Losing a child to forced adoption is worse than losing a child through death. This way you will forever know your child is somewhere, never knowing their favourite colour or food, never knowing their health, or education, never to know them as a child and growing adult. The uncertainty also of never knowing if they will ever want contact with you once they are told of their biological heritage, if indeed they are ever told, and who knows what lies they are told.
I am actually having problems with publicity for this event, I have sent a general press release to the national newspapers and magazines, and also television. I have sent the same to many other local newspapers across the country. Sadly there has been no interest. I would appreciate a little help if you are able to spare it with the publicity issue......"

This person has had great difficulty in publicizing this rally and I know that a group of mothers, such as yourselves have contacts in many fields. I believe that this person is genuine, and as you can see like Cheeseball, Sudbrain and Postsue has their own sad story. It is a PEACEFUL rally, not so much a demonstration. All mothers (and fathers) with their children if they want would be welcome. I for one on this occasion shall be attending.
If you can not go, as the majority of you live outside London, could you pass it on to anyone who you think may be able to go or who has the contacts in helping to publicize it. I do think it is a good cause and very sad that no one has shown any interest in helping to publicize this event. Some of you went to the RCJ demo, which I for one greatly appreciated, but as we know this is something that affects every mother, especially one with a child with special needs. When asked you kindly wrote to your MP's and Mrs Hodge. You have offered so much support and advice in the past to myself, Cheeseball, Spudbrain and Postsue. I know I do not have a right to ask you to do this but I personally feel that this is a good cause and some people are trying to bury this issue, which can benefit no one, it only means that the mistakes of the past can be repeated.
I feel that this person needs credit for having the courage to do what I and others have not been able to do, and that is put there words into peaceful actions. As I said if you are unable to attend, which I understand is the case due to geographical locations, then please pass on this information to anyone you think might be able to attend or help in publicizing it. If you can go, even for half an hour, just think of the nice day in London you can have with your children and you may at last see me as I shall be sporting my Virtual Mother TO-shirt!
You have not ever let me down in the past, and I have never asked you to do something for another person, but I believe in this person and urge you to check out the website. If you can not help in any other way but post your good wishes then I feel that they will be well appreciated, post either here or on the website, but please don't let this issue become buried when there are people trying their hardest to do something, peacefully, at last.

kalex · 25/07/2004 22:31

O bunglie. I am in Scotland, but am (hopefully) in London the 10-12 September, when is the rally. I would go (if 4 no other reason to approach every woman in a wheelchair and say "are u Bunglie" ),

On completely separate issue, I have know become so involved in your ("I don't know the words to describe" "ordeal" please may i become someone that you email, my email address is [email protected].

I feel that I am intruding on your privacy by asking. And if I am please ignore, but I think of you every day and THE LOST MOTHERS THREAD is the first thing I check on when I log into MNet

All my best wishes

OP posts:
kalex · 25/07/2004 22:44

How many typos can one person make on a post

OP posts:
Bunglie · 25/07/2004 22:57

Kalex, if you email my personal assistant Janh, and letme havea few details of yourself I shall see what I can do

I will post more re the rally tommorrow, it is late now and Bunglies bedtime! but it is August 28th at Trafalgar Square, 2-6pm.

SofiaAmes · 25/07/2004 23:19

bunglie, I think you should write the letter just like you are writing to us, with your heart and soul. Your love and emotion will come across. Feel free to email it to me if you want a second opinion, but I'm sure whatever you write will be right.

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