What do people think is most likely to happen with the Irish/UK border?

[coffeclub]

What is the most likely solution?

Anyone in the mood of opening another thread and link back as it is getting close to 1,000 posts already.

That's an invitation not an order btw. Maybe OP will offer.

Ignoring goods for this post, just focussing on movement of people.
'control of borders' does not mean 'close all borders' it means having the choice to do whatever you want to wrt your own borders.

If (post Brexit) UK want open border with Ireland then they can do so.

This obviously means that EU citizens can move into UK freely, but could easily be the case.
But (post Brexit) these hypothetical EU citizens entering UK via Ireland wouldn't be able to work/access anything so not the same thing at all as having complete FoM as it is now.

Mother, I agree, and as a Londoner I can't get my head around NI getting to stay in some sort of special relationship with the EU if London doesn't.
I know that's harder to argue than for an entire country, but I won't let my dream of an independent city state of London ('La Serenissim-innit'?) die just yet.

Mother, I'm Scottish too & I'm entirely comfortable with NI having a unique situation as NI is in a unique position (the only land border with the EU).

However, I do think it should be up to the citizens of NI as to whether they want a border in the sea (for goods only) as discussed upthread - not the DUP/WM making the decision on their behalf.

mother,

You are 100% correct to say that any special status for NI is wrong if no other part of the UK gets the same treatment. I know the situation at the NI/ROI border is tricky, but still.

It will be very interesting to see how this pans out, since all the very intelligent brains on here after nearly 40 pages cannot find a reasonable solution either.

I think myself it will end up being a reciprocal regulatory agreement re goods and services + CTA.

I know that doesn't solve the problem of sealing the borders, but the only way it will work is a border in the Irish Sea. DUP will go nuts, but sometimes the greater good will win out. Maybe Ms May will just go ahead and do that anyway.

If she doesn't, well I don't think phase 2 will go ahead under the timetable they are talking about. The Summit is on the 14/15 December, and still no ideas from the UK Brexit negotiators. Are they bringing it down to the wire for a reason or are they just clueless.

Another uk wide referendum, this time no leave lies, no bots...

Remain would smash it.

cathyclown you are right this time. Almost one thousand efforts by intelligent mumsnetters to solve the problem and we have failed.

DUP will go nuts

The problem isn't that the DUP would go nuts. Let's face it, they go nuts at everything. The problem is all the very moderate quiet unionists going nuts too.

People in England would go nuts if they suddenly needed a passport to travel within their own country, so why should people in N Ireland have to tolerate it?

I am a Mum, but quite an old one, and so I do have friends who voted to leave. Some of them have changed their minds. I will apologise on their behalf.

So I've just watched tonight's RTE news

It seems Britain have come up with no offer, the EU will stand with Ireland, there may be no stage 2 of negotiations, and we are in a position that either May stands up to the DUP or there is a hard Brexit with no border deal and no trade deal.

Surely she has to call the DUP bluff and have an election if necessary?

Is there any point in a new thread? It's all rather depressing [sigh]

And by the way I don't think it's fair to expect people in the North to accept an Irish sea border; if that happens it is the rest of the UK hanging them out to dry.

I just don't see an alternative.

I wonder if there is a general election in the UK would any party have the guts to stand on a "we'll hold a new, much more specific, Brexit referendum".

Unlikely, I know, but it is an option.

If (post Brexit) UK want open border with Ireland then they can do so

Only if Ireland/The EU agree to that.

• it's easy to throw stones at Corbyn for advocating talking to the Provos while ignoring the tacit support of UK governments from the 1890s on of the Unionist side despite a mutiny by Unionist sympathiser officers in the British Army on the eve of WW1

Like most Brits I am entirely open to admitting that the way Britain treated Ireland over the centuries was often dire. As a cradle Catholic, and with Irish forebears, like many Brits, I see that, I really do.

But Jeremy Corbyn was no prophet. He was an apologist for an awful organisation.

This constant kick, kick, of the ‘English’ (perhaps a mention that the Scots had quite a big role in NI historically and that South Wales was Brexit voting?) is getting wearisome.

Look at the demographics of MN. Mainly young, majority female, more educated than average. Which way do you imagine most of them voted in Brexit? You are preaching at the converted and it is like being shrieked at. Our fault that this happened, that happened. We should apologize, etc.

Today, on Radio 4 I have heard the border question discussed in detail on every single news programme. Again it was highlighted in the National newspapers. We want it sorted, too.

I don't feel I'm being shrieked at...

But Jeremy Corbyn was no prophet. He was an apologist for an awful organisation

That is your opinion. Many of us do not share it. And if you do not like how we are having a conversation about things that matter to us, you do not have to join in. Nobody is "shreiking".

To be fair Abra1d, I think most of us are using the generic "you" and "English" to describe the attitude of many British people rather than specific mumsnetters (excluding random trolls).

The reality is that the English are in the majority, so their opinion is going to override everyone else's in a nation-wide referendum. And, traditionally, English people in general have less knowledge and less interest in the goings on in NI (or Scotland or Wales for that matter). They don't have to; they can live in their little bubble and not worry out the edges of the country.

Maryz The Liberal Democrats may well come up with that offer, but how can they hope to overcome the effect of all the foreign billionaires and tax avoiders who have relentlessly promoted brexit in the newspapers they own (Sun, Daily Mail Express)?

I know someone who gave out press releases for the LIbDems during an election campaign and was told by his contact at The Sun "Don't bother to give us anything. As far as this paper is concerned your party does not exist - unless their is a scandal"

It all goes back to the "first past the post" electoral system in the UK doesn't it?

It means votes for middle of the road parties (both in NI and the rest of the UK) are wasted votes, and means that the ordinary person isn't really represented very well.

Is there any point in a new thread? It's all rather depressing
We need a new thread BECAUSE it's so depressing! These threads are the only thing keeping me (semi-) sane.

And It all goes back to the "first past the post" electoral system in the UK doesn't it?

yes it does.

I'd like to thank everyone who has contributed to this thread, I've found it really interesting and apart from about three posters who AS has told me are trolls anyway you lot have been a great bunch!

I'ts great to be able to chat about things with people from so many different backgrounds.

to the posters up North; whatever the outcome, you are going to bear the brunt of it, so I hope it works out.

As a non-Irish lurker, I'd like a new thread. The Irish contributions, in particular, have been excellent.

New thread here. Hope no one minds me opening it since I am not the OP.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/in_the_news/3101941-What-do-people-think-is-most-likely-to-happen-with-the-irish-UK-Border-Part-2