What do people think is most likely to happen with the Irish/UK border?

[coffeclub]

What is the most likely solution?

Oh Sammy Wilson [bleurgh]

Why are they blaming Ireland for this? It's not Ireland who are thinking about dumping them and heading off happily into the sunset without them. The very fact that they are getting so openly stroppy tells me that they really think the rest of the UK will leave them behind.

I should put money on an election in the new year. The odds are crap though

I agree with you; those likely to access integrated education are probably those who are less polarised in the first place

Most people just don't have the option of integrated schools. There are no integrated primaries in my area and the one integrated secondary is very oversubscribed and people come from 20 miles away to access it.

The voluntary grammar schools tend to be fairly mixed, although nowhere near 50/50, except perhaps in towns where there is no Catholic grammar school.

eenymeeny is that on Pettigo? I thought it was really good too. Some of it was new to me (I don't remember roads being blown up to make them impassable, for example, because it wouldn't have impacted my life) and I thought it was very even-handed. In fact, I think the Beeb seem to be one of the more level-headed reporters on this.

The only "solution" I can see that would be immediately acceptable to the EU and Ireland (and incidentally about half of the North) would be for NI to remain in the customs and free travel area. If that's agreed by the British government, though, the DUP will walk out and the government will fall.

Forgetting the DUP for a second, I think it's perfectly reasonable for this option to be unpalatable to your average unionist. I wouldn't be impressed with a border between Dublin and Galway, the average English person wouldn't be ok with a border between England and Scotland. I think it's perfectly reasonable for those who consider themselves British to abhor the idea of being distanced from the rest of the UK.

There really is no solution.

Treacle some of my nieces and nephews took part in 'Key' programme as part of transition year where they went away with teenagers from NI. It was all part of building better understanding between the communities and I think some of them are still in contact. It's a pity things like this aren't more widespread.
Reading that Across the Barricades book at school doesn't have the same effect I think.

Certainly more level headed than some on this thread calling on every English person to fall to their knees and flagellate themselves. (How about the majority Brexiteers of Cardiff?)

I voted Remain. I lived through the IRA mainland bombing campaign, working a block away from two large London bombs and the Downing Street mortar attack. (Obviously Belfast was a whole different category of terror, though.)

I don’t need scolding that the GFA is too precious to lose. I don’t need telling that Brexit was a mistake. I KNOW. I am very worried. I don’t telling that nobody on Great Britain cares about Ireland.

This subject has had mass coverage on the BBC and on the front pages of newspapers, including today’s Times.

And on the question of the PM: you really think the IRA supporter Corbyn, who probably wanted Brexit, or Boris would be better?

I agree, LivLemler, if I was a unionist (or even a not-united-ireland-er, if you see what I mean), I wouldn't accept it either, because whether anyone admits it or not it would be one step close to a breaking up of the "union" and the reuniting of the "island".

As a solution it would be the British government chucking NI under the bus - I just can't see any other agreement being reached in the next two weeks.

Of course it isn't everyone, Abra1d, and I apologise for generalising. I'm sure there are many people in the UK (both leavers and remainers) who are viewing this particular bit of Brexit with horror. There are some on the thread, though, and probably more on mainland UK, who really don't give a shit and don't want to know.

I don't actually think Corbyn would be better at anything. This is the first time in ages that I've looked across the water and thought "Jaysus, their voting choices are worse than ours at the moment".

@maryz, honestly (and bizarrely) until very lately there wasn't a massive amount of media coverage unless you went looking for it maybe. The media were obsessed with the stormont talks and power sharing until they all but stopped a few weeks ago. As a broad nationalist and remainer I'm very glad Leo and co seem to know what the are doing -not like the shower up here-

For now I feel as if every English person should make a formal apology to Senator George Mitchell; who at the request of his President put years of his life into the talks that made the GFA possible, and whose efforts we have pissed up the wall through weakness, arrogance and unreconciled colonialist assumptions.
[Annandale]

This^^.

George Mitchell deserved the Nobel prize imo.

Mary I don’t find your posts a problem. I understand your concerns. Brexit is a huge worry for many of us.

Math... How do you think posts like that are helping?

www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-42179387

"Sammy Wilson warns Brexit talks may jeopardise DUP-Tory deal"

And there it is - the situation laid bare - the DUP pulls the leash.

DUP MP Sammy Wilson has warned that his party's deal to support the Conservative government could be jeopardised by the Brexit negotiations.

He said any attempt to "placate Dublin and the EU" could mean a withdrawal of DUP support at Westminster.

He was responding to reports of a possible strategy to deal with the Irish border after Brexit...

...Mr Wilson said that the UK government would "have to recognise that if this is about treating Northern Ireland differently, or leaving us half in the EU, dragging along behind regulations which change in Dublin, it's not on".

Earlier on Thursday, DUP leader Arlene Foster said that the government had a "clear understanding that the DUP will not countenance any arrangement that could lead to a new border being created in the Irish Sea".

Mr Wilson said the proposal mooted in The Times report was unworkable, and revealed the DUP would be seeking clarification from the government on its accuracy.

Let's see Theresa wriggle out of this one.

There are probably written assurances, though the £1bn bribe still hasn't materialised. If there are no written assurances, the DUP are fools. The Tories are completely duplicitous.

Abra1d, you can't have it both ways - it's easy to throw stones at Corbyn for advocating talking to the Provos while ignoring the tacit support of UK governments from the 1890s on of the Unionist side despite a mutiny by Unionist sympathiser officers in the British Army on the eve of WW1, the smuggling of weapons and ammunition from Germany to supply tens of thousands of Ulster Unionists on the eve of WW1, the unconstitutional defiance and threats of insurrection of the Unionists towards Westminster that forced a rethink of plans to offer Home Rule to the whole island and caused the issue of Ulster to be a sticking point in the negotiations that led to the signing of the Anglo Irish Treaty and the ending of the War of Independence, the cynical posturing of Westminster as Ireland was divided, the turning of a blind eye to gerrymandering on a massive scale that effectively disenfranchised the RC population of Northern Ireland and the setting up of a regime that was essentially a sectarian-based apartheid - a situation that lasted until the GFA was signed in 1993.

At every point where Westminster, and the Conservative and Unionist Party in particular, could have taken a long, hard look at the sordid political dynamics of Northern Ireland, they refused. No surprise really, since the Tories were equally reluctant to take a stand against South African apartheid.

In the end, guess what happened? The Westminster government sat down and talked to Sinn Fein.

Corbyn stuck his neck out and was vilified by political opportunists, but he turned out to be a prophet.

I still can't quite comprehend that's it's the likes of Sammy, Arlene and co that can hold the UK government and the EU negotiations to ransom!!

No divergence from the rest of the UK my arse. Arlene and her little band of dinosaurs are perfectly content to allow the rules on equal marriage to differ. Frigging cheek of them!

One of my friends did suggest that today PinkPanter. Since Arlene is so determined that there will be no difference between NI and GB then tomorrow let’s get the ball rolling on gay marriage and abortion rights. Let’s see how resolute the DUP are then. We can also ditch dog licences, rates, the housing executive, R plates, licensing laws...all of those little “quirks” that don’t exist in GB.

So from this evening's news, the DUP are refusing a sea border and Varadkar is refusing a land border. Varadkar set to veto.

I'm glad we have Varadkar. I said earlier in the thread he was an unknown quantity, but he seems to be sticking to his guns. Arlene Foster is equally as strenuous in her opinion. See how a veto goes down with the lot of them.

Sinn Fein is very quiet wrt to all this. Aren't they?

Have they something up their sleeves or what.

I've said it before Cathy, I don't know what is going on with them. It is NOT like them to keep their mouths shut. I've GA and Marylou on my FB and neither of them have even seemed to mention this at all. It's like they have been gagged! Lol.

The DUP want to be very careful with their threats, Keep shouting and they might have to follow through. if they pull out of gorverment they will lose all their power and the 1 billion that has been promised to the North.

I think they are being quiet because not a single involved entity comes out of this looking good. Smelling of shit and less credible than Trump seems the least worst case scenario.

There was a male MP from the DUP who was adamant that if they didn't get what they wanted, they would withdraw from government. Sorry, I'm terrible with names. I have a feeling it might come down to that if Varadkar holds his position.

I have a politics degree and studied this a few years back . Also have NI / Irish Partner . The whole thing is a complete mess and also impacts the GFA . Who ducking knows . Maybe they will turn to MN for ideas .. not entirely unthinkable at this point .

Sf had no problem putting down a motion of no confidence in an Irish minister last week though. It backfired and they are on the back foot.

The silence from them is amazing. But there must me a reason.

The only thing that I can think is that SF is trying to look like the 'reasonable' party. If it came to a referendum in NI, holding their fire might serve them well. It's odd.