I think anyone who voted Labour in the last election is complicit in murder

[Aloha]

Because you knew Tony Blair lied and lied and lied to get us into that war, and now children are being killed every day, and bodies are piling up in the streets. I think he is the most vile, wicked and contemptible man in Britain. How can he sleep at night? I feel so ashamed he is our prime minister.

SP - sorry, I know I am miles behind but:
I didn't say the war was about removing a vicious, mass murdering dictator.
but the war DID in fact remove a vicious genocidal mass murdering dictator.
which was predictable.
if you opposed the war, then did you oppose the removal of Saddam?
it really isn't as black and white as the OP suggests.

Genocide is happening now in Darfur - nobody gives a damn as far as I can see.

Pantomime politics night is it?

OK so rather than be hysterical and super critical Aloha, what would you have done to resolve the situation ?

and the US is much more so than britain in terms of the approach that it has taken to israel.

the US and britain to a lesser extent have observed a huge enormous double standard with regard to UN resolutions and the middle east. human rights count for shit if israel is involved apparently. successive US govts have allowed israel to flout international law.

the iraq war was illegal because a sovereign state was invaded without provocation. and before we even get onto abu graid and haditha and all the other abuses, falluja etc basically the US and the UK have abrogated any credibility that they ahve in the region and alientaed moderate islamic opinion around the whole world not just in the middle east.

the invasion of lebanon showed that all of the promises made about how blair told us that he'd go along with bush so that there would be a roadmap for the middle east....the US gave not a toss about that...who ended that conflict hezbollah: radical islamics.

UK and US policy has made extremists far far more powerful in the middle east..

it is F&CKED UP>

and the US is much more so than britain in terms of the approach that it has taken to israel.

the US and britain to a lesser extent have observed a huge enormous double standard with regard to UN resolutions and the middle east. human rights count for shit if israel is involved apparently. successive US govts have allowed israel to flout international law.

the iraq war was illegal because a sovereign state was invaded without provocation. and before we even get onto abu graid and haditha and all the other abuses, falluja etc basically the US and the UK have abrogated any credibility that they ahve in the region and alientaed moderate islamic opinion around the whole world not just in the middle east.

the invasion of lebanon showed that all of the promises made about how blair told us that he'd go along with bush so that there would be a roadmap for the middle east....the US gave not a toss about that...who ended that conflict hezbollah: radical islamics.

UK and US policy has made extremists far far more powerful in the middle east..

it is F&CKED UP>

He was NOT genocidal when the war happened. The monitoring was working well. Now the country is a million times more dangerous, the people much more likely to die. Bravo!

I do think the removing a vicious, mass murdering dictator while true is hypocritical coming from any member of the US or UK government.

but that's my point harpsi - this world is full of murdering dictators who don't get removed. Championing the war because it did that is by the by iyswim.

The situation WAS under control. ffs. Now it absolutely isn't.

Glad to see that some people think the dismemberment of children is 'pantomime'.

(I know an iraqi, just the one, but he thinks getting rid of Saddam was worth everything, that the Shi'a Sunni divide was always bound to erup, and that when it resettles the country will be stable and move forwards).

doesnt answer the loss of life thing of course, but surely he should have a fair idea? Kids were dying in Iraq, they were, except intentionally- I dont believe that TB ever deliberately ordered the death of a child. Saddam did, many times.

mmmm if you call that a situation under control, then I think you are hysterical

Hypocriticalm, in that there are several other such characters at large on the planet and the line was only used when the WMD line was exposed.

Sophable - I did not say that Britain and USA were not culpable (and I do know some of the history btw). I just don't believe that those responsible for the suicide bombing and destabilising the country should be excused so that we can lay all the blame at TB and Dubya's feet.

So you think it is better now, unlike, ooh, everyone who actually lives or works there?

No the silly name calling and deliberate simplification of complex issues is pantomime.

Who was that aimed at Alhoa? Its a fast moving thread, we need names

you don't compare apples and pears though do you? and if there is to be any thread of anything that demarcates us from the terrorists we purport to fight it is law: UN law, Interational Law.

we have fucked with both and we are and will pay the price.

yes sophable - cynical but true - only the draft gets people out onto the streets al la Vietnam - the nos. on the streets only started piling up as the no. of dead US marines started piling up - people only begin to notice when their OWN kind come back in body bags

of course the 60's and 70's generation were generally more politically aware too, none of this Big Brother/Celebrity Get Me Out of Here shite TV mentality that permeates everything these days, more people read books and quality papers, etc.

Ok, you vote for murder and sleep well.

yellowrose hi. i get very very very depressed by how apolitical our generation is.

Hang on

this thread completely ignores the views of anyone who DID vote against Blair

Who DID join their anti war group (not everyone could march, not everyone lives near one)

Who has an MP- labour or whatever- who voted against Iraq

It seems to be them and us and just seems to shout at anyone without actually acknoeldging anything much said in pots

Its not a debate, its an accusation

Aloha "Ok, you vote for murder and sleep well."

In that case, one would never vote.

I think, if the libdems could have just pulled their finger out (last election) and even just managed to run a half coherent campaign, then something could have happened. They had the most perfect opportunity (being the only main anti-war party) - they could have really gone for it but they screwed it up right royal.