I think anyone who voted Labour in the last election is complicit in murder

[Aloha]

Because you knew Tony Blair lied and lied and lied to get us into that war, and now children are being killed every day, and bodies are piling up in the streets. I think he is the most vile, wicked and contemptible man in Britain. How can he sleep at night? I feel so ashamed he is our prime minister.

Any Questions was on tonight, Sophable, and the labour guy was such a creepy liar. The party tried to rubbish the latest reports saying the country was far, far worse than ever by saying the reports were 'flawed' it has now come out that the government's chief advisers said they were absolute models of what a report should be. Liars! Am SO angry!

i'm 37 and have lived long enough to realise it doesn't matter a shit what you believe in. the world will be run by arseholes whatever you think/feel.

it's just a sad fact.

unless women took control!

What has triggered this tonight, Aloha?

Some of you sound as if Britain and the USA are to blame for everything that is wrong with the Middle East. Absolutely hogwash.

Britain exports weapons to the Middle East because Middle Eastern govts want to buy them - it is a legitimate trade, whether you agree with it or not.

Where were all the bleeding hearts when Iraq waged an 8 year war with Iran? How many dead Iranian and Iraqi children were the result? Also, has everyone forgotten it was the same TB and USA under Bill Clinton that came to the rescue of the Muslims in Kosovo when they were being slaughtered by the Serbians?

As for the destabilisation of Iraq, I bet every penny I have that the powers that be know who are behind the many factions reside in countries like Iran, Jordan and Syria.

What are the Middle Eastern countries doing to help their neighbours in Iraq stabilise the country? Why don't they step up to the mark, show some leadership as well as compassion and take on the mantle as advocates for peace? What ever happened to the followers of Islam looking out for one another?

Southeastastr, do you remember Thatcher?

Agree with the leadership wrt Lib Dems, Dh grew up iN paddy Ashdown land, cant speak highly enough of him. I like Lembit, but the cheeky girls thing was a bit -

If we dent other people the right to choose their leader on the policies that matter to them then we're as bad as the rest of them.

That I strongly believe.

I didn't catch it all. Was it Peter Hain? THey are all toadying atm because of the imminent leader change.

But what is the basis/what are the rules of whether a war is legal or illegal? Genuine question, I just don't get it?

Is it like announcing a strike?

Agree Speedy, the notion of the Ummah (community of Islam) is supposed to be a founding tenet of Islam

I don't have a vote in any middle-eastern country and I doubt many mumsnetters do either. I would vote against a child-murderer in any country.

I"m not surprised aloha. i know that whenever i see that kind of utter bullshit I feel incensed.

I'm so fucked off with the apathetic state of the nation. we should be out on the streets, but maybe only the draft gets people there (a la vietnam...incidently i think that this is absolutely on that scale if not worse).

it is all so utterly f&cked.

i despair and rail.

i marched.

didn't do a sod

mostly because like you say, people didn't vote on this issue last election (shame on you) but rather on a perception that life was better under new labour (how those chickens are coming home to roost now: interest rates anyone? hospital closures???)

That is a cop out though SEA.

This thread has achieved one thing tonight. I have looked at the voting record of my Labour MP who only entered the house at the last General Election (Labour stronghold, previous MP retired) and she has voted very strongly against investigating the Iraq War. Why?

i lay the blame at public schools.

yes course i remember thatcher

As for letting Margaret Hodge, that lover of paedophiles, remain as an MP, I am just unable to comment coherently.

speedymama i would refer you back a bit further in history.

britain and the US are very very culpable.

Fox - i meant about Charles Kennedy being an alcoholic

why a cop out

So what about the UN forces that sttod by in Srebnica )sp)? So all tory and Labourm voters should be arrested?

Well i suppose i'd be able to afford a house at least

Learning more about Winston Churchill's comparatively small but utterly pivotal role in the Vietman war was really shocking to me.

ha vvv! at least it wasn't Mark Oaten I suppose!

churchill was a war mongerer

He was an Imperialist, more to the point.

Sophable, at least I know you understand on this issue!

thanks for this thread aloha - i hate the man always have, always will, NEVER voted Labour, never will - bastard ! and yes iraq is one of my main reasons for supporting the work of the International Criminal Court, which we have ratified (the USA predictabily under Bush hasn't) - I would like to see criminal cases brought against this TB and GB.

My life btw is better under Labour, its not a misconception, its real, very real.

If you don't ewant albour next tie round, the LibDems need members with convivtion to support us. If everyone who feels strongly joins we will find our leader. But f people aren't prepared to do that, we're stuck aren't we? Somewhere in the middleground labelled as valid but not viable.

"the world will be run by arseholes whatever you think/feel" was what I was referring to as a copout. It suggests that there is no point voting because it will make no difference, that the ordinary person has no influence etc and we know where that can lead.