I think anyone who voted Labour in the last election is complicit in murder

[Aloha]

Because you knew Tony Blair lied and lied and lied to get us into that war, and now children are being killed every day, and bodies are piling up in the streets. I think he is the most vile, wicked and contemptible man in Britain. How can he sleep at night? I feel so ashamed he is our prime minister.

but speedy, that reads well but it's not so simple. THat area is so destabilised and has so many different groups and factions (entirely predictable from the outset) that they can't just find who is responsible and punish them. It really is a total mess.

I think not voting is a sin

I am actually a member of the Lib Dems anyhow, but i don't think voting labour or tory makes you complicit in murder. I really don't. maybe I am naive but I still believe Tony Blair thought he was doing it for the right reasons. And Glenys Kinnock (again labour) is a very fine woman.

no it was the scumbag, lying, excuse for a human being, child-murdering saddam and his hangers on

And ALL the 'outside elements' bringing murder to the country are a direct result of Tony Blair and his fuck-buddy GW's actions. They are the scum of the earth, and hearing his comrades lie for him on tonight's Any Questions has filled me with such anger and disgust. I am ashamed of my country.

tories are the most war mongering species

harpsi: but the war wasn't about removing a nasty dictator. It was about WMDs. and it was patently obvious that it would cause a lot of suffering.

I voted against the mass murder of children, women and men. I feel OK about that.

AN dI think much of what was happening is inevitable, the Sunni / Shi'a divide was always going to blow eventually (and thats from my Islam Prof)

BTW I was never in favour of the war because it went against the UN and was based on false dossier - OK TB claims that he believed it at the time, but there was a lot of covering up, shady dealing and "sexing up" so hardly think TB was totally naive re all that.

That disgusting lie about 45minutes. The whole revolting conspiracy. But all blown apart before the last election. HOw COULD anyone vote for a proven liar? How could you? I don't understand?

I don't understand how wars can be deemed legal or illegal. Who decides?

Tbh, I think it was going to happen no matter who was in power (US or UK govt). It's almost impossible to remove a dictator without bloodshed - although I'm quite well aware this whole dreadful situation was to do with oil more than anything else.

I agree that what's happened is absolutely terrible but I don't lay the blame at Tony Blair's feet. We are all to blame.

fwiw, the (very) small handful of Iraqis I know knew it was inevitable and desparately sad as they are about the situation, they believe Saddam's regime had to be destroyed.

I am porobably more concerned re Guantanomo (sp?) Bay tbh.

btw, I accept I am ignorant re politics.

ok ok, not voting is bad, but I do understand why people don't do it in times like this.

I did vote btw. in 2001 (?) I flew home especially.

beg to differ, the war was about oil. good old fashioned oil.

and now they've secured it.

Oh, don't start me on Guantamo. Tbh, anyone who voted labour in the last election must take part of the responsibility for that too.

tories love a good war, admit it. half the public schoolboys go into defence it's so British. it stinks

you see, if his argument was to bring down a horrendous dictator (as some people's excuse was for the war - because Saddam was an evil bastard) then why haven't we gone into Zimbabwe all guns blazing? (I mean, I know why, but for comparison purposes).

I would very much like to see Mugabe's regime destroyed (as would most Zimbabweans). Doesn't mean we're going to war there though.

They're all bloody liars Aloha. Seriopsuly the only decent ones I ahve encountered are my AM (libdem) and Glenys (labour)- she's been helping me with a lot of anti slavery stuff, I ahd a letter about ti from J Prescott today that she instigated.

I didnt want to go to war, I was always anti it and I ahte it BUT there is mroe than one issue to vote on. Lots more.

It is so unbearably sad though that in so many countries of the world there are these warring factions. TBH and rather shamefully, I bury my head in the sand about it most of the time. I really cannot see though that the allies in however many years have improved the situation in Iraq at all.

But vote for TB and you vote for murder and Guantanamo and George Bush. How could you do that? I'd rather vote for Harold Shipman, he was a more decent human being. Jesus, who isn't?

oh whats the other option then?

The problem of Iraq was created when Iraq was created, not all that long ago.

I would consider voting Labour again if libdem not an option. I could never ever vote Tory. Ideologically against every belief I hold.

the other day my stepdaughter and I watched The Quiet American, about the prelude to the Vietnam war. She asked me about it, so I answered her the best I could, then did some research. The Americans were 90% to blame, as they always are, but the British contribution was utterly shameful.

Aloha I think that is a bit OTT. Who should I have voted for? BTW we had a BNP candidate so I made sure I did vote (only vote I have ever missed on was whether to have a cabinet in our council and I regret that because we got one and I didn't want one).

Vote for people with decent human values. I voted Liberal democrat. the only party with the morals to oppose the war.

But who or what is the alternative Aloha?

Is not voting worse or voting for a party whose basic principles you disagree with but just to make the point?

I've no idea tbh, it's something my life-long Labour voting mother and I struggle with.