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I think anyone who voted Labour in the last election is complicit in murder

440 replies

Aloha · 13/04/2007 20:44

Because you knew Tony Blair lied and lied and lied to get us into that war, and now children are being killed every day, and bodies are piling up in the streets. I think he is the most vile, wicked and contemptible man in Britain. How can he sleep at night? I feel so ashamed he is our prime minister.

OP posts:
niceglasses · 14/04/2007 13:38

Its all relative though isn't it? I'm not defending Blair et al, but I mean look at the mess that is Aids in S.Africa or the middle east with its daily bombings that don't even register any more or countless other atrocities the world over and each of them should have far more attention and make us feel shamed.

I don't agree with Blair or the decision. Your anger is righteous, but I'm not sure I feel 'shamed' for voting Labour. I like a lot of what they have done. I think we are straying into the minefield of how much the Germans knew about the concentration camps etc. Read 'Hitler's Willing Executioners' - great on this sort of thing.

ruty · 14/04/2007 13:41

not really peachy, it is wishful thinking at the moment, but something we are trying to work towards [my pitiful attempts at language learning notwithstanding!]

PeachyChocolateEClair · 14/04/2007 13:42

LOL at the langauge learning- I have to start Welsh with my PGCE .

Nightynight · 14/04/2007 14:28

yellowrose - look at the evidence & history, you'll see Im right. TB may dominate a bunch of career politicians - so what? the establishment is much bigger than any of them.

Nightynight · 14/04/2007 14:29

ruty - lol my sentiments exactly, which is why I am in Germany at the mo

ruty · 14/04/2007 14:46

welsh may be about as hard as macedonian peachy!
Quite like the idea of Germany NN, tho i know it has its own problems...

yellowrose · 14/04/2007 15:21

it's ok, peachy i have read your very good posts on other threads, hope you didn't think i was saying you and your family are unethical, every one is to one extent or another, dh works for one of the world's biggest IT companies, not sure how ethical that is ? i buy clothes for ds which i am certain are made in sweat shops, but can't afford to do Baby Armani at the moment (and i bet you even Baby Armani get their stuff sown in Asia, not in Italy were it would cost too much) - life is a series of compromises and unless we all live in caves and live off berries, i am not sure how hermit-like, eco friendly we can get. not even sure if living in a cave is eco-friendly ? lol

yellowrose · 14/04/2007 15:32

ruty - i know what you mean about wishing to live abroad, dh and i have thought about it for years, he speaks French and i speak German, but we just can't make up our minds.

i don't fancy living in any of the countries were we can use our languages . i was hoping italy (but we would both have to learn italian very well to work there) and gave up on that too after a friend who knows italy well put me off the idea ! italy is still great for holidays though

i think we have lots of positive things going on here in the UK, but it isn't perfect.

it's tough.

yellowrose · 14/04/2007 15:34

NN - i don't doubt the shady figures that form our so called establishmnet, but WHO are they exactly ? the army ? the navy ? the royals ? the foreign office big shots ? the church ?
what do you mean by establishment ?

donnie · 14/04/2007 17:39

what would I feel guilty about Aloha? what makes you such a saint? you are so full of shite I am laughing! if you are basically saying that everyone who voted Labour last time around is a mass murderer then you truly need help.

donnie · 14/04/2007 17:40

and for the record I voted for the greens last time around!!

donnie · 14/04/2007 17:46

"maybe you'd like to tell the suffering people in Iraq how hysterical they are too".

well no , not really. They truly are suffering. You are just ranting and foaming childishly at the mouth. Are you daring to liken your indignance to their pain?

2shoes · 14/04/2007 17:52

only read the thread title. as it is uch a disgusting load of crap. i don't want to read the thread

PeachyChocolateEClair · 14/04/2007 17:57

Hmmm, quite like the eco friendly farm foos no electric life in the summer (ie camping) but not for the autumn winter methinks.

electra · 14/04/2007 18:26

I have to say that if anyone other than aloha had started this thread people would have thought it was a troll. It doesn't seem like her.

donnie · 14/04/2007 18:42

you obviously didn't read the danish cartoon thread then , electra!

electra · 14/04/2007 18:44

No, I must have been away when that went on!

nogoes · 14/04/2007 18:45

I agree with Donnie, and no I didn't vote labour either.

Dinosaur · 14/04/2007 18:45

Let's not stir up old threads that went pear-shaped .

You and Aloha have your debate on here.

donnie · 14/04/2007 18:46

well it was suitably jaw dropping. Many of her postings were deleted as they were deemed offensive and racist by other posters. And that is all I am saying on the matter!!

donnie · 14/04/2007 18:47

you are quite right dino - I am off now!

Nightynight · 14/04/2007 20:30

donnie, 2shoes et al; we are all responsible in part for what our government does, unless we admit that we live in a dictatorship. We are complicit in many nasty things: we support unpleasant exploitation, and yes, murder.

These nasty things happen in other countries, so it is easy to turn our backs on them.

When I was at primary school in the 70s, we learned how good it was that people like Elizabeth Fry, Dr Barnardo, Shaftesbury and others had helped to eradicate child labour, slavery and other injustices in Britain. I believed that that made the world fair, and that the days of Pin Money, Needle money were gone.
As a child, I could never understand how wealthy people in Victorian Britain could have shut their eyes to 7 year old chimney sweeps, street children, people working 14 hour days and other injustices that underpinned their way of living.
Now I realise that the only thing that has changed, is that the unpleasant reality that supports our privileged lifestyle, happens a little further from our doorsteps, that is all.

It is deeply wrong to close one's eyes and pretend that we aren't complicit in the world's injustices.

electra · 14/04/2007 20:47

I agree with that nightynight.

yellowrose · 14/04/2007 20:55

i don't know aloha well enough to say, obvioulsy don't know her in real life, so can't comment, but if someone wants to say we are all complicit in murder, etc, whether you voted labour or not, the way to deal with it is to refute through counter-argument and reason, not name calling.

i don't agree that if you did vote labour last time round, you are now a mass murderer of Iraqi's and should come before the international court ! that is a little bit too far even for my imagination which is pretty vivid , however, that does not mean as Nighty puts it rather well in her post, that we should just sit about and do nothing.

there are things that we can do, like some of us discussed in the anti-slavery thread a few weeks ago, like joining Amnesty, anti-racism, anti-slavery, anti-war and other human rights orgs. if you think that TB and GB are war criminals, as i do, then makes some noise about it to whoever you think will listen. many thousands of distraught people went for that bastard pinochet for decades, they got lots of global attention for their cause and rightly so.

also if we are all so unhappy about TB, which many of us here on MN seem to be, then do NOT vote labour next time round, make sure they get punished, make sure you try and get some attention around the issue of international war crimes.

have fun, this is a debate, not a court !

VeniVidiVickiQV · 14/04/2007 21:03

Custy - that is exactly the point I was trying to get at earlier (cept you said it far better )