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Original poster

Transgender pupil wins right to wear girls uniform

269 replies

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 18/10/2016 21:34

metro.co.uk/2016/10/18/transgender-pupil-wins-fight-to-wear-girls-school-uniform-6198932/#mv-a

I think it is absolutely right that a school pupil of whichever sex can wear the traditional uniform of either sex.

However, I am slightly more concerned that this individual has also been granted the right to use toilet and changing facilities of the opposite sex - this bothers me as these areas are sex segregated for good reason Sad

This is in the UK btw.

OP posts:
ageingrunner · 20/10/2016 07:51

I wish someone would at least have a go though Hermione. Or admit that they can't answer the questions.

DollyBarton · 20/10/2016 07:54

Herminone, because again it's nothing to do with transwomen what criminals and preditors do. And you can't discriminate against them for the actions of others. That is why I've no response to 'how many women being assaulted is acceptable'. We all have liberties rights and freedoms that have led to greater potential access for criminals. It doesn't mean you take away the rights.

What do you have in common with a trans women you don't have with a man? Why does it matter, it's really not about you. You don't have to understand how they feel it identify with transwomen for them to exist and be valid people who feel most comfortable and normal living life as women.

BertrandRussell · 20/10/2016 08:02

"You don't have to understand how they feel it identify with transwomen for them to exist and be valid people who feel most comfortable and normal living life as women."

No, of course not. But i think my issue is that some people seemto me to want to live life as a woman while simultaneously claiming male privilege. And it is women who are expected to budge up and let them.

HermioneWeasley · 20/10/2016 08:09

dolly what does "living as a woman" mean?

There are lots of cases of male people (who may or may not have been "genuinely" trans) being granted access to women's spaces and hurting women as a result. The ending of sex segregated space has directly negatively impacted on women. If we didn't say "you can come in if you identify as a woman and there's no test for what that means" those women would not have been attacked or spied on or filmed. They are acceptable collateral damage to the trans lobby and their supporters.

IzzyIsBusy · 20/10/2016 08:09

I dont identify with TW. They have led a male life from birth. They have never had the female experiences i have.

I will support their right to live without fear or prejudice but i will not support them when what they want and demand tramples over born womens rights to privacy, safety and male free spaces.

HermioneWeasley · 20/10/2016 08:12

And it matters because if I share (previously) sex segregated space with women, I know we have something in common - our biology. I have never felt uncomfortable changing or showering at the gym with other women. I would feel very uncomfortable with a man, even if they identified as a woman.

I have nothing in common with TW that I don't have with men, so if I'm in a female space, I'm there for a reason and expect it to be only women. If I request a female doctor, I expect a woman.

SuburbanRhonda · 20/10/2016 08:25

Getting back to the OP, my LA is re-writing its relationships and sex policy and has invited schools to comment. There is a new section on transgender children and I asked a question about what staff should do if a child asks about a trans child, "So is X a boy / girl now?" I thought this would be a likely scenario in a primary school.

The reply I got from the author of the new policy was, "They will probably still be the same biological sex" Shock.

So what hope do we have when even policy makers don't understand absolute basics like you cannot change your biological sex?

TheHiphopopotamus · 20/10/2016 08:40

dolly what does "living as a woman" mean

What I've learnt, and what has been illustrated on this thread, is that 'living as a woman' can mean anything from just stating that you are a woman, without doing anything else (like that tit who has a full beard, wears men's clothing and states that he's broadening the bandwidth of what it means to be a woman) to going the whole hog and taking hormones and having surgery. None of which, I feel, will give you any idea of what it's actually like to be be born biologically female and be socialised as such.

But hey, it's not about actual women and who gives a fuck about we think anyway? Hmm

Amalfimamma · 20/10/2016 08:57

We all have liberties rights and freedoms that have led to greater potential access for criminals. It doesn't mean you take away the rights.

But that is exactly what's happening. My rights are being eroded to satisfy the needs of men.

ageingrunner · 20/10/2016 09:05

Having sex segregated spaces has left fewer opportunities for criminals. Why do we have to create a situation that gives them more access?!

ageingrunner · 20/10/2016 09:06

And why doesn't my opinion matter? Why are men's feelings more important than mine?

IzzyIsBusy · 20/10/2016 09:08

But that is exactly what's happening. My rights are being eroded to satisfy the needs of men.

^This is the bottom line. It amazes me that people cannot see that they are putting the rights of men above women. We are just meant to stay quiet and accept it. Would men stay so quite if the she was on the other foot?

I have rights as a women and will not allow men, dress wearing or not, to remove those rights while telling me how to think.

IzzyIsBusy · 20/10/2016 09:08

*Shoe

Maybeitsthered · 20/10/2016 09:09

Forgot I had posted here, DDs diversity teacher is also her form tutor. I asked DD if she saw her form tutor much and she said yes we have mini diversity lessons before our first lesson. I said oh ok like what kind of things? She said race, sexuality and transgender stuff (their is a MTFchild in her class)

Then she told me about the conversation they'd had about the olympics, I was agog!

She had suggested to the teacher that there could be female/male/transgender categories, teacher asks her to explain her reasoning. DD explained and teacher said it could be perceived as transphobic and we have to accept people as they are.

I haven't brought it up with the school, I discussed it with DD instead and told her she wasn't being transphobic at all.

BertrandRussell · 20/10/2016 09:14

I really have never heard of a specific thing called a "diversity teacher".Do all schools have them?
And if a child of mine reported that conversation I would want to know more.
But "could be perceived as" is different to "you are".....

SuburbanRhonda · 20/10/2016 09:16

maybe

I would not be happy if my child's tutor shut down discussion about transgender issues especially if the tutor brought the subject up in the first place.

It sounds like the school haven't thought through their policy on this issue and have rushed into appointing a diversity teacher because of having a transgender child in the school. I would be asking to see their diversity policy in the first instance.

Maybeitsthered · 20/10/2016 09:16

Well the best bit is that DD then asked why (transgender) child didn't do PE with the girls...,.silence.

SuburbanRhonda · 20/10/2016 09:17

"could be perceived" by whom though? The school?

Amalfimamma · 20/10/2016 09:25

we have to accept people as they are

So if someone is a fascist we have to accept them. If someone is a mass murderer we have to accept them. Same for sociopath, pedophile, rapist, and yes if we like by the we have to accept people as they are mantra we have to accept transphobics, homophobicso and racists because it's just the way they are

So therefore the teacher should not have bullied your child into submission by using the transphobic word and mantra

DollyBarton · 20/10/2016 09:50

Amalfi, your insinuation is that being transgender is comparable to being a paedophile, murderer, rapist, sociopath. I'm sure if you think about it you will realise that is not a fair comparison or argument.

Amalfimamma · 20/10/2016 09:54

DollyBarton

No dolly and don't twist my words as it shows you upwe have to accept people as they are then it must apply to everyone, not just a certain few otherwise that is discrimination.

Now. Please tell me what you mean by "living as a woman"? You've been asked many times on many threads and artfully ignored the question.

My insinuation is that if the mantra is

DollyBarton · 20/10/2016 09:55

A transgender person is also not comparable to a transphobic person. Its like the difference between a black person and a racist. One should unquestioningly be accepted for who they are and the other should be questioned and not accepted for who they are.

Amalfimamma · 20/10/2016 09:58

One should unquestioningly be accepted for who they are and the other should be questioned and not accepted for who they are.

That is discrimination Dolly.you can't have it both ways. Either people should be accepted for who they are or not.

DollyBarton · 20/10/2016 10:02

There are some tangible and intangible things about living like a woman. A transwomen will not have periods or give birth but there is far more to every woman than that. And there are different women in every walk of life. Why is it so important to you how some stranger feels when they wake up and acts through the day? If it means so much to anyone that others believe they are a woman as they go about their day then why must you tear them down over that. It has no impact on you other than in your head. It's enough for me that someone wakes up and goes to sleep feeling like their unique selves and if that self looks and feels like a woman to them, then I wouldn't force them to conform to what's think they should be.

Does it matter what I think living like a woman is? It what you think it is?

SuburbanRhonda · 20/10/2016 10:05

One should unquestioningly be accepted for who they are

What do you mean by "who they are"? If a trans woman, for example, says that who they are is a woman, same as an actual woman, ar you saying the only response to that is unquestioning acceptance?

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