Transgender pupil wins right to wear girls uniform

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

metro.co.uk/2016/10/18/transgender-pupil-wins-fight-to-wear-girls-school-uniform-6198932/#mv-a

I think it is absolutely right that a school pupil of whichever sex can wear the traditional uniform of either sex.

However, I am slightly more concerned that this individual has also been granted the right to use toilet and changing facilities of the opposite sex - this bothers me as these areas are sex segregated for good reason

This is in the UK btw.

People spend a lot of time spitting and furious about transwomen NOT being women anyway. You can't change biology. The earth isn't flat. They weren't born with a vagina like we were so they CANT be women.....it's like the knee jerk reaction to fixate on something that although true in a literal sense, it meaningless in the day to day reality of a transgender person.

Why, in reality, does it matter to you (I mean collective you who instantly feels indignant at the thought that a man is claiming to 'be' a woman). It matters to them so let trans women get on with being women. Even if you feel like you 'own' womanhood more. So what.

The thing is that although the incidence of men pretending to be trans to attack women may be rare now, once predatory men realise there's a loophole, i can't imagine that they won't increase. No it's no trans people's fault, but if they keep pushing for this then any attacks will be as a direct result of their actions.
And no, I don't like them muscling in on my womanhood actually. Tw aren't women and haven't had the same experiences throughout life, and I do find it offensive actually that some tw are claiming to be the same as me. They are not!

In my case the knee jerk reaction was to think 'poor tw of course they must be allowed into women's spaces'
My current position on this has come as the result if a lot of thought and a lot of reading about the subject

I dont like the idea of women being pushed further to the back of the queue, actually.

As I said earlier, pay gap, maternity leave, patriarchy - its all still stacked against us. Where are the Trans Women fighting for Women's Rights? Hearing plenty hear about the rights of trans-gender people.

Its not about comprimising my womanhood. Its about being expected to compromise to the point where we are actively setting our own sex back even further.

Do you want a discussion? Or are you going to characterize anyone who may not absolutely agree with you as "spitting and furious"? Do you want a discussion? Or are you going to say that anyone who may not absolutely agree with you is transphobic?

Because I am happy to discuss/debate/argue/whatever. I am not prepared to be insulted. And I'd like to get the parameters straight first.

No I'm sorry. Preditors taking advantage of a group getting equal rights does not mean you take away those rights. It means you increase policing and punishments.

Some Irish committing crimes in London due to being allowed on the streets after dark like all the other people does not mean you take away Irish peoples rights to be on the streets after dark.

Irish and non-Irish are equal in terms of vulnerability. There is no physical difference. However males are significantly stronger than females which makes females significantly more at risk. So we segregate certain spaces in order to protect those who are more vulnerable ACCORDING TO SEX, WHICH IS LEGAL.

Dolly I am sorry about the Earth isn't flat comment.
I wonder if the labelling is a bit off and the discussion might be better framed around a male variation argument as this could be more accurate.
i suppose it is difficult for me and others to relate to. The only thing that makes me feel female frequently is that I feel like I am being punched in the stomach once a month (period) and I get paid less (than men). I don't wear dresses and I do wear make up but this isn't essential to being female, of course.

But it's not just about the fear of MtT attacking women in womens spaces, it's about the complete erasure of women.

If MtT commit crime it skews womens crimes stats

If MtT compete in sport in many they will be unbeatable by women, yet hold all the medals and records

If MtT is a well paid CEO will be used as example of how.women are breaking through the glass ceiling

If MtT wins a STEM scholarship to assist women in entering STEM fields they deny a woman that place.

A gender balanced board could consist of 50% male/ 50% MtT

Nobody here hates transpeople, or is arguing their right to exist. They are rightly concerned about MtT demanding access to female spaces.

Of course they don't commit crimes

That fell runner is a seriously disturbed person. Very very frightening

And presumably meets the criteria for being 'really trans'? So would be in women's spaces?

eroding your womanhood

With what exactly?

Hilarious.

I really really don't think the existence of other women in the form of transwomen on this earth erases women.

Trans women being probably physically stronger than most women doesn't mean they need to be treated like violent offenders anymore than it was right in the past to treat all gay people as if they were paedophiles.

Agingrunner, you simply can't think it's right to use the example of one bad person to discriminate against a whole group of people?

Trans women are biologically male
If it's acceptable to share changing rooms/hospital wards/rape crisis centres with biological males we may as well just do away with sex segregated spaces

Growing up and going through puberty much of our talk was periods and our developing bodies
I would not share that with biological males nor would I want them sharing changing rooms
They are not going through a female puberty

No, of course not. But it's an example of the type of person who will be allowed in women's spaces. The comparison with gay people doesn't work. Most paedophiles aren't gay. But most sex offenders and violent offenders are men. It's not just a hysterical bigoted reaction. There is a real risk. Women will be less safe than previously.

Regardless of the threat of violence

I simply do not want to share a space where I feel safe and comfortable because those around me are female with a male

Why do we have to justify this any further than I want and feel I should expect my privacy, dignity and feelings around safety is as important as it is for a trans women

it really comes down to male entitlement when I think that it has less impact on everyday life I open my eyes again and I am quickly reminded that it most certainly does and until the male population acknowledges this and accept what females are telling them it will not change

It's interesting that we tend to be kept to the bathroom debate. When the points raised by ItsAll are actually much more important.

Dolly- what are your views on those points?

eroding your womanhood

Eg the press recently trumpeted about the first woman to serve on the front line. Except it wasnt a woman, it was a man, and no notice will be taken of the real first woman. This is a pretty minor story but it is illustrative.

If the definition of woman is expanded to include men then everything that is about or for women becomes meaningless or pointless.

The reporting of Clare Derbyshire who killed "her" father was a joke too. My mum, who usually only listens to the radio and hadn't seen a picture was surprised when I showed her, to say the least. The BBC were reporting the murder as if it had been committed by a woman. No mention of trans woman or man at all.

Why do people continually bring up murderers on these threads?

Nobody says why do you want to protect a group of women like.... and link to a bunch of murderers, do they. A few violent people do not represent the majority at all.

Have you ever thought that a trans woman fighting for equality and their rights could be beneficial to all women?

There also seems to be a lack of acknowledgement that there are also trans men too.

"Have you ever thought that a trans woman fighting for equality and their rights could be beneficial to all women?"

How?

How can trans women fighting for rights benefit women? I see lots of areas where rights are in conflict.