Transgender pupil wins right to wear girls uniform

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

metro.co.uk/2016/10/18/transgender-pupil-wins-fight-to-wear-girls-school-uniform-6198932/#mv-a

I think it is absolutely right that a school pupil of whichever sex can wear the traditional uniform of either sex.

However, I am slightly more concerned that this individual has also been granted the right to use toilet and changing facilities of the opposite sex - this bothers me as these areas are sex segregated for good reason

This is in the UK btw.

I refuse to be defined as a 'cis-woman'. Its madness.

Branleuse

I find your terminology insulting. I am a woman. I am proud to be one. #thereisnocisaboutit

The big difference in the 'rights' here is that (biological) women are not being stopped from accessing a service but transgender women are (or at least the majority of posters here are attempting to block their access). Some women being 'outraged' about their privacy to go to the toilet or put make up on doesn't trump a fundamental right to access. Transwomen have a right to access ladies toilets. It's a public space, and women need to respect the laws in place about who can use it (made for a very good reason), however inconvenienced they feel about it.

"Notice I said "spaces"? Not "bathrooms"?

Except in your second sentence..."

Sorry-was that to me?

Transwomen have a right to access ladies toilets.

NOT THEY FUCKING WELL DON'T.

Why are MY rights being pissed on so that THEIRS are not infringed?

I am smaller, weaker and more vulnerable than a MtT - I need my rights.

"It's a public space, and women need to respect the laws in place about who can use it (made for a very good reason), however inconvenienced they feel about it."

Blimey. Let's just think about that for a moment, shall we?

If transwomen are given the right to use ladies' loos then they're not bloody ladies' loos any more are they? They're unisex

Actually titchy, yes they do have a right. Under the equality act 2010 I think.

You are equally permitted to use those toilets. Nobody is saying you can't. Equally you can't say they can't. The only person stopping you using the toilet is yourself.

Is it not the case then that Transgender people need their own space?

You would think so, but I think some MTT have a need to feel validated by being able to use women only spaces.

I'm less safe in a ladies' toilets that has bio males in than I am with only bio females. And the other thing is who decides which males are allowed to use the ladies'?
When people are self-identifying, what are the criteria that we use to decide who's genuine and who just wants to hear women having a wee, or worse? We're going to end up with men in our toilets and no legal right to tell them to get out, whether they're wearing a skirt or not. Can everyone not see this?

I think it wouldnt bother my dd, partly because she often tells me she wants to be a boy and she hopes to be a man when she grows up and that people should be able to be whoever they want to be, so id be really surprised if she had rigid views about who can use the toilet.

And not just toilets, the olympics, women's hostels, rape crisis centres, scholarships etc etc etc

People can't actually become of the opposite sex though, can they? It's just fantasy

I wanted to be a boy when I was a child, but no one told me I could and if they had I would have been sorely disappointed

oh ffs, im only using the term cis to differentiate from trans. I dont refer to myself as cis at any other time.
If you find a bit of latin used to make it clear who someone is talking about insulting, then thats just a bit weird

oh ffs, im only using the term cis to differentiate from trans.It is suffice to say trans, or MTF, and woman. No need to differentiate further is there?
seeing as your such a fan of latin here's one for you

ASINUS AD LYRAM

I dont tell my dd she can either. Ive tried to either avoid the conversation getting too deep, or just modelled myself and with the company I choose that women are diverse and dont have to act in gender stereotyped ways. I hope to god she just forgets about it tbh, but if she doesnt, I just hope she doesnt come on mumsnet, or that the rest of society isnt as cruel to minorities

I prefer to use cis and trans thanks when talking about trans issues. I dont use it at other times. You carry on as you were if it makes you happy, but im happy to adapt my language to get my meaning across better.

I prefer to use cis and trans thanks when talking about trans issues. I dont use it at other times. You carry on as you were if it makes you happy, but im happy to adapt my language to get my meaning across better.

I doubt anyone would misunderstand you if you used trans and woman to get your point across. Then you wouldn't be insulting those who are women and those who present (or not) as such.

There's no need to use cis. Ever. Woman is fine.

" I just hope she doesnt come on mumsnet, or that the rest of society isnt as cruel to minorities"

And here we go again!

Someone wants to discuss trans issues? Hit them where it really hurts a liberal person. Tell them they are being X-phobic. That'll shut them up and keep them wrong footed while they panic and agonize about it and wonder whether they really are a bigot without being aware of it. Then you can erode women's hard won rights a bit more while they are introspecting.

I am reading 1984 and some of this debate reminds me of that. It's like saying evolution isn't true or the earth is flat certain things that are being debated aren't really factually correct.
I have sympathy for this girl and their journey, and they need support, but I am not sure that allowing a genetic and physical male into female loos is really a step forward for their rights or women's rights.

Indeed Lily can fuck right off.
Why don't they give Lily access to teachers bathrooms and her own room to change in?!

I hope this madness stops soon. I'd be furious if I was a parent at that school.

you don't discriminate against a group of people because of what other people might do to take advantage of that equal right you've given that group.

You would be better spending your energy demanding tougher sentences for any of the rare occurrences of predators pretending to be transgender to commit a crime.

The above situation is no more the transgender community's fault that it is your fault.

Preditors have plenty of access to women without having to go to the hassle of dressing up and all reports I've seen so far, from sexual assault organisations etc. shows no increase in incidences with transgender access to bathrooms of their choice. You have probably all shared a bathroom with a transgender woman many times and not even noticed. What would you think of a transgender man being forced use your toilet? One that simply looked and moved and acted exactly like a man? Would it be okay as long as you had verbal confirmation they had no penis?

Let's be honest here. You just don't like the idea of transgender women muscling in on your womanhood. How dare they.

"Let's be honest here. You just don't like the idea of transgender women muscling in on your womanhood. How dare they."

Could you say a bit more about this?