Assaults in Cologne and other European cities part VI

[HelpTheAnimalsFirst]

Thread 6.

WillBeat We are so limited to 300 characters, and it's actually incredibly hard to include all the hint words.

I don't wish to derail, but I think if there is a 'cultural' coming in the last sentence, I feel it has to link back to a similar reference in the first sentence, otherwise it seems to come out of nowhere.

Alternatively, there could be no reference at all to culture

• just stick to the fact of it having been group sexual attacks on an unprecedented scale and you want assurance that there are measures in place to prevent it happening here.

e.g.

On New Year’s Eve, women across Europe were subjected to group sexual assaults on an unprecedented scale. We ask the government to ensure that measures are in place to minimise the risk of similar attacks here, and, should they occur, to guarantee an effective and transparent response.

(I realise that this makes the statement very specific without a more general sentence about freedom of movement for women - so may not be suitable.)

Hopefully final copy. For your comments. I have re-inserted "sex" because that is relevant, and added an "s" to assault. Changed last word from "traditions" to "attitudes".
300.

On New Year’s Eve, women across the EU were subjected to mass sex assaults. UK women must be free to travel, work and live without intimidation or sexual violence. We ask the Government to debate and enforce measures to promote and uphold women's rights irrespective of religious/cultural attitudes.

whataboutbob Just going out on a limb- I suspect and reports seem to back this up, most perps in Germany were not Syrian but North African and Afghan.

I don't think it's going out on a limb at all, it's very relevant. I live in Morocco and I know that since Germany opened its borders to Syrian refugees, more and more young Moroccan men have been leaving the country. It is easy to fly to Turkey - Moroccans don't need visas as they do for most countries - and from there they join the genuine refugees from Syria. When they reach Greece, they are initially treated as refugees, but now they are more likely to be thrown out of the refugee camps. That doesn't discourage them, they go on looking for other ways to western Europe.

Nowhere have I seen any reporting on the statistics on where people are coming from who are entering Germany, no reporters actually travelling to Greece or the Balkans to investigate the refugee trail there. The only report I have read on this is from Al Jazeera, and while the author is clearly trying to portray the Moroccans he's interviewed sympathetically, I find it hard to share his view. Morocco may have high unemployment, but it doesn't have civil war.

I feel the same LWR- I am sure Algerians will be trying to get in on the Syrians' coat tails. They are not fleeing persecution, just a corrupt country and limited prospects. A linguistic analysis would easily sort out the Maghrebis from the Syrians but it won't stop them trying. Calling them all asylum seekers or refugees is misleading and gives them a certain legitimacy to be over here which I don't think they deserve, especially if they are going to behave in the ways we have seen on TV/ are reading about.

"On New Year’s Eve, women across the EU were subjected to mass sex assaults. UK women must be free to travel, work and live without intimidation or sexual violence. We ask the Government to debate and enforce measures to promote and uphold women's rights irrespective of religious/cultural attitudes."

This works for me

"women across Europe are being subjected to mass sex assualts the likes of which have never been seen before"

I dont like the wasted " on new years eve "

Great, Pink. Any further suggestions are fine, but would people be kind enough to retype & present the para with suggested amendment in its totality, keeping it to 300 characters. Because every amendment throws the spacing allowance out of the window.

I like pinkchamp's version. Sadly attacks like these and worse have been seen before eg Russian forces in Germany in WW2, Serbs raping Bosnian women in former Yugoslavia. The statement includes "cultural attitudes" which will be a pointer to the origins of the problem.

I've not read the full six threads as the majority seemed to be pretty one sided in it's outrage (and don't get me wrong, the assaults were despicable and need to be dealt with by the justice system).

Has anyone shared the reports on here yet of refugees publicly condemning the assaults and making it very clear that this is not acceptable in their or any culture?
www.ibtimes.co.uk/cologne-sex-attacks-syrian-refugees-take-streets-condemn-mass-assaults-by-migrants-new-years-1537747

I like Pinks version also.

Widow, people have shared some of those reports, yes.
We're a hell of a long way down the trail here and it would be too much to ask you to RTFT, but most of us are anxious to ensure that a protest is made and action taken BEFORE this gets into the hands of the Far Right who will do fuck knows what with it (indeed, are already doing it).

I found this petition now but dont know the person who started

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/118450

Under title: Ban the Mayor of Cologne from Britain for her 'new code of conduct' to rape idea

"The Mayor of Colognes response to hundreds of local women being assaulted, attacked and raped by immigrant men on New Years Eve was to issue a new 'code of conduct' for German women, effectively instructing them to cover up an not tempt the criminals. Britain must stand by women's rights and ban her"

It's not my version! It's been refined by dozens of posters of several days we must all be pedants.

We need our petition out Quick.

whoops *over not of

I think mentioning "attitude" without mentioning "culture" is fine and avoids it seeming like we are picking on Muslims in general, which certainly isn't what we want to do.

MariscallRoad that is disturbing. I didn't sign the Donald Trump petition, and I certainly wouldn't sign that one either. It is far less thoughtful and constructive than what mumsnetters have been working on!

Yes widow, there have been a few links. Genuine refugees will suffer greatly as a result of the mishandling of these assaults, in the form of revenge attacks (already happening) and possible reforms. No-one wants that I'm sure. However we cannot allow our freedoms, as women and EU citizens to be eroded in order to protect others. That is what the police and governments tried to do and that is why feelings are running high.

Nothing on Cologne yet on Dimblebore. Discussing Danish issue re giving up valuables. But not the mas assaults.

Can't really see much distancing from the right wing here. I toddle of then, it's pointless.

Pinkchampchoccies Fri 15-Jan-16 20:18:53 and 2016IsANewYearforMe

I know it is not your petition. I am waiting for you to decide on the text. I wanted to let you know what is out there circulating. I ve not signed it. I dont know who is the person who started it either.

WidowWadman, I started a thread called German femist response to Cologne attacks. There is a link on there to the 'no excuses' or #ausnahmslos campaign on there which is a campaign aimed at addressing all kinds of sexual violence without racism. They may be on Woman's hour soon. Their response to the Cologne attacks is to join in solidarity with victms of sexual violence without inciting against certain ethnicities.

Waht do you mean widow

"Pinkchampchoccies Fri 15-Jan-16 20:18:53 and 2016IsANewYearforMe
I know it is not your petition. I am waiting for you to decide on the text. I wanted to let you know what is out there circulating. I ve not signed it. I dont know who is the person who started it either."

I'm not sure what you mean

"It's not my version! It's been refined by dozens of posters of several days we must all be pedants."

My post was in response to people saying 'I like Pink's version' I don't take credit for work I didn't do so I posted to clarify that many posters had collectively edited the text, which was great stuff.

Either way, I think it is important not to connect the first paragraph 'mass sex assault' with 'religious/cultural attitudes' in the last paragraph. This as there was nothing religious about the attacks and Islam does not condone such things. It's illogical. There is a cultural element to the mass sex attacks, obviously, as they have been imported from a specific cultural setting, i.e. parts of North Africa.

I have had a little time to think and we must not (imo) connect the attacks to religion because we have a huge Muslim community in the UK and have luckily not witnessed this kind of thing.

I prefer something like this:

On New Year’s Eve, women across the EU were subjected to mass sex assaults. UK women must be free to travel, work and live without intimidation or sexual violence. We ask the government to debate and enforce measures to uphold women's rights irrespective of contrary cultural attitudes. (286 with spaces)

Widow

Can't really see much distancing from the right wing here. I toddle of then, it's pointless.

What exactly would you like to see? It is not our fault that the far right have capitalised on the attacks. That was always going to happen. We just want women's rights safeguarded. Why should they be sacrificed for the "greater good"? Who gets to define what is the greater good?

We have said we deplore what the far right do and in addition many of us believe that the liberal/left are letting the far right control the narrative with their early, woeful response and attempts to sweep the incidents under the carpet.