Assaults in Cologne and other European cities part VI

[HelpTheAnimalsFirst]

Thread 6.

"I have had a little time to think and we must not (imo) connect the attacks to religion because we have a huge Muslim community in the UK and have luckily not witnessed this kind of thing. "

It's a socio /cultural 'import' /phenomenon not a religious one. This is what I think. Even if I think hardline Islamists are misogynist many Muslims men do not behave like this, as we know, otherwise we would have stuff like that happen.

For me this is not about religion. It is about challenging the 'not talking about it' for fear of being labelled racist etc. That is wrong and must be challenged.

I'm reading the comments on the economist article linked above. One of them claims that tarrarush gamea is specifically mentioned and condoned in the Koran. If this is true, then it is very much a religious issue.

Referring to pink's re wording....

Pink this latest wording is clearer.

I don't believe that for one minute Words. Many comments are clear garbage.

WidowWadman, here is the link to the other thread

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/2548540-A-German-feminist-response-to-the-Cologne-attacks

I've been off mumsnet for a week and just popped back on today... and I found these threads. I've devoured them with relief. Finally people saying what I've been thinking about women's right being sacrificed on the alter of political correctness and subjugated to any other minority (not that women or the minority) right that happens to be the flavour of the month. There is so much potential danger in letting this slip under the radar. How recently was it we got the vote, property owning rights, and other rights? I don't think most of my right-on, left-wing, lgbt, feminist friends realise just how fragile our position really is and what life in UK could look like for women in 20,30,50 years time. It makes me weep for my one-year-old DD.

Anyway, I think the petition is a great idea and I will sign it and promote it.

Can I make one pedantic comment? (Hope that's not rude as I'm so late to the party):

Surely it should be "in the face of" not "irrespective of" contrary cultural attitudes? The govt. needs to enforce measures because we are faced with these attitudes, not regardless of whether these attitudes exist or not.

I have no clue what the Koran is saying so I cannot verify.

I honestly think it is wrong to make this a 'Muslim' issue as it is not. I think I'm stating the obvious but with regards to mass sex attacks as seen in Cologne it's a cultural thing otherwise it would have occurred in Germany much sooner as they have a massive Turkish community since the fifties/sixties.

I do think Islamists have terrible attitudes to women but I am not here to challenge the views of a religion on women as I don't know enough about the religion.

What i do know is that phenomena such as the group assaults must never ever be swept under the carpet for fear of offending other people who may belong to the same demography.

Sorry for typos in first paragraph. On my phone.

"women's rights" not: "right"
"altar" not: "alter"
"not that women are the minority" not: "not that women or the minority"

Hope there are no typos in my pedantic bit!

Emily, back to your crafts and knitting

Well I just googled tarrarush+Koran and came up with some very dodgy looking links to porn, which I've no intention of exploring further.

You're probably sensible , Pink, to avoid including anything that would deflect from the issue.

"
Surely it should be "in the face of" not "irrespective of" contrary cultural attitudes? The govt. needs to enforce measures because we are faced with these attitudes, not regardless of whether these attitudes exist or not."

Good point Jo. I am too tired to make any more sense.

I agree that we should leave religion out of it.

As I said earlier, it would be good to get Muslim women on board rather than alienate them. Muslim women have also been victims of these sort of group sexual assaults in crowded public spaces.

For example:

www.theguardian.com/world/2012/jun/09/egyptian-women-protesters-sexually-assaulted

Re getting Muslim women on board- good idea- Why don't we start here and put something in chat ? There have been some Muslim contributors to this thread, but it would be good to have more on board.

I think we have to be stronger re petition.I feel we are at tipping point.

"The EU authorities response to the recent mass sexual assaults on innocent girls and women is deplorable.We demand a debate re UK measures to ensure the safety of girls and women against mass sexual assault from men who do not share our culture or values."
Or words to that effect
I emailed my mp,SNP, and have had no response.

Lumela,your response to WidowWadman was very unpleasant.

'We're a hell of a long way down the trail here and it would be too much to ask you to RTFT.'

I have signed the petition linked to on page nine. Making me the forty sixth person to do so. It's not going to go very far at this rate...

It is quite a task at this stage to read the full threads.

Thanks for the link emilybohemia. #ausnahmslos is a positive campaign I can get behind. That petition discussed on here not so much.

Fig rolls, they're my favourite.

So happy to hear it WidowWadman, you have made my day.

Polenta, what's wrong with crafts and knitting? Don't do them down, lots of women love to craft. It can be very relaxing and therapeutic, perhaps you could give them a try sometime pet.

Mine is SNP travelling and no response. labour MEP no response.

My wording said i was pro immigration and asylum seekers but concerned at women's right to public life being curtailed and this being deemed a low enough price to pay by government and police in Germany and Sweden.

Last time I contacted my MP I got a response within the day!

travelling - your wording reads as if assaults from men who share our culture and values are OK. Why is it not enough to ask for all sexual (and other) assaults to be treated equally and investigated/persecuted no matter who the perpetrators are and what background they come from?

Nothing from the poster who volunteering to start the petition. Any others willing to?