Assaults in Cologne and other European cities part VI

[HelpTheAnimalsFirst]

Thread 6.

Emily: "Mumsnet HQ, these threads frighten and concern me a lot."

They dont frighten you in the least. You are using that old, overworked chestnut. Women should be frightened of your dreadful attitudes to them which you are covertly supporting.

I came to these thread late and its been pretty obvious to me help

As I said the irony of having to struggle against such posters to have a discussion about how to move forward on the issue of sexual attack on Mumsnet of all places!!

Will- it is not derailing to challenge perceived prejudice when seen. It is not derailing to be concerned about the impact on Muslims/ refugees/ migrants as a whole when this thread includes some of the extremely dubious (at best) posts that Emily and I have been objecting to and pointing out.

Women should be frightened of your dreadful attitudes to them which you are covertly supporting.

I am frightened of her agenda!

It is not derailing to be concerned about the impact on Muslims/ refugees/ migrants as a whole when this thread includes some of the extremely dubious (at best) posts that Emily and I have been objecting to and pointing out

Emily and yourself have willfully and repeatedly totally ignored anything posters have written. You have plucked out one or two sentences and taken them out of context, for your own agendas.

I personally pointed out a few times in the other threads, allowing the mass sexual assault on women is doing nothing for the actual true refugees caught up in this mess. Its not helping their cause, and its not. Its bloody obvious its not. But then your probably not on their side either are you?

I'll rephrase:
Travelling -bingo
Help, and others- spot on
Culture, at least, should absolutely remain

HelpTheAnimals I can assure you there's no sock puppetry or coordinated work going on, just because three different people dare to speak up on this thread.

HelpTheAnimalsFirst Sat 16-Jan-16 10:00:49 I am OK with that version too.

Will I agree with your point about it not helping other refugees. All kinds of motives have been attributed to me that are not true. I'm not ignoring comments and posts although it is true that in the last few days I have not had much time and not been able to answer all of them. There was one in particular about someone's close experience of mental illness that I wished I had seen at the time because I would like to have answered - I really felt sorry that she do misunderstood my position.

Apart from anything else, it has been said numerous times that I have said we must talk about culture. Despite me numerous times saying that that is not what I think and not what I have said!

This is not a discussion thread, it is an ACTION thread. A fairly large and diverse group of women are attempting to put together a petition protesting against mass sexual assault on women. Insisting that these attempts should be dropped every time someone posts something someone else thinks might be prejudiced, WOULD inevitably result in "derailing" and a loss of focus for the thread. The participants in this thread have been quite right to strenuously resist this happening, in spite of huge provocation.

Fair enough widow wadman. No sock puppetry.

I ask myself what is the issue at stake here ? (My personal answer : women's unhindered access to public space to be affirmed by authorities.)

Is the issue to police racism and neo Nazism amongst many internet posters - not for me. I leave it to Emily my Geordie mate.

Is that not so, pet?!

So in an "action" thread nobody may point out that that "action" is in danger of being at least distasteful if not actually inciting hatred against foreigners?

What result are you actually hoping to get from that petition that asks to only address one type of perpetrator in the first place? What action does your petition aim should be taken by the authorities?

I thought it was Emily's position on advising posters on their mental health rather than you Twisted?

'There isn't a catalyst that suddenly makes racism acceptable.'

I have read all 5000+ posts and it is quite clear to me that 99% of posters are well aware that the violent criminals responsible for these attacks do NOT represent the majority of immigrants or Muslims. I am well aware that these men are in the minority. Nonetheless, they have used the very real plight of genuine asylum seekers to gain entry into European countries and are terrorising women on the streets. That is a fact. UK citizens have been welcoming immigrants for decades and integration here has, by and large, been very successful. No-one is objecting to controlled immigration we just don't want 1000's of violent criminals on our streets, we have enough of those already.

I too am concerned how these events are going to affect genuine asylum seekers, but that is soley down to the criminals committing these crimes and the subsequent response of the authorities, not a bunch of women on the internet discussing concerns about these types of crimes reaching out shores. I actually hope the law abiding immigrants in the affected countries rise up against these men, they have as much to lose as we do.

itsjust

everyone bar a few posters on this thread gets that. Its obvious.

Which is why I wonder why are they allowed to keep posting in the way they do?

YY Kes

Actually I think Emily and Twisted have made a really useful contribution to this thread. When women go forward with this petition/protest against abuse, you are going to get a lot more stick than they're giving. Fully expect rape threats being denounced as racists, being called hysterical, it's going to get a lot more abusive than anything they're giving. So their contribution might be a good training ground, anytime they call people racist, answer and counter with facts, it'll be good practice.

The gist of what Emily seems to be saying is that no country in the world has any greater problem than any other county with harassment/abuse of women, men's attitudes are the same everywhere and if you think anything other it's because you are racist. That's what I'm getting anyway.

Twisted It is not derailing to challenge prejudice, agreed, but that goes both ways. It is a good thing to challenge racism and try to change those attitudes through debate but it is not acceptable to try to close down discussion by suggesting anyone with a different view to you is racist which is what emily, you and now Widow seem to be doing. Picking odd phrases out of long and robust discussions to claim proof of racism as emily is now doing is ludicrous
Women's rights should not be sacrificed for the rights of other groups or vice versa

Is it a coincidence that your posts all seem to reappear whenever the thread seems to be moving forward?

twisted

why not simply start your own thread, yourself, Emily and widow are talking at cross purposes with many many many other posters on here who all share the same goal.

Its like trying to talk about the inclusion of all women into main stream football, but all you want to focus on is the colour of their footy kit.

Go and start a thread about the color of their footy kit.

YY Fake very true.

I've been reading these threads all night after I saw a link on a comments thread on, i think, the Economist?

Anyway, there are plenty of us watching and all ready to shared and sign the petition just like the majority of you who all seem to want the same as we do - safety, the preservation of women's equality and the right to move around our home countries as we please.

I think anyone who has a problem with that should look deep into their heart for prejudice against women.

When will the petition go up please?

Widow I apologise if counting you in with the other posters who are swimming against the tide is unfair but as you have a different view on this
Can you explain to me please why wanting to protect the freedoms I have enjoyed so my daughter can do the same is wrong?
Do you think that we should not criticise criminal behaviour if it comes from someone in a minority group?
How do you think this subject could be discussed without reference to race/culture in view of what has happened in Cologne and other cities?

I am genuinely interested to hear a different view here

I have no idea WillBeat but I will not be silenced. Emily and co have repeatedly tried to shut down these discussions but here we still are 5000+ posts later and long may they continue. Let's stick to the topic at hand and ignore.

wow that's encouraging January !!

YY Itsjust.