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Assaults in Cologne and other European cities part VI

1000 replies

HelpTheAnimalsFirst · 15/01/2016 10:54

Thread 6.

OP posts:
LumelaMme · 15/01/2016 22:14

Ditto, Sonya.
And for the record I will happily speak to women in hijab and have done many times.

venusinscorpio · 15/01/2016 22:14

WidowWadman

I repeat my questions above:

You mentioned you didn't see us distancing ourselves enough from the far right. What exactly would you like to see?

We just want women's rights safeguarded. Why should they be sacrificed for some perceived greater good? Who gets to define what is the greater good?

TwistedReach · 15/01/2016 22:15

Yes I have. But I find the idea of not speaking to women because they are wearing bhurkas abhorrent and given that the op of this thread said that that is her position, wondered what others posting here thought.

VertigoNun · 15/01/2016 22:15

I have spoken to many women in hijab too.

SonyaAtTheSamovar · 15/01/2016 22:17

I try not to demonise Twisted.

OutwiththeOutCrowd · 15/01/2016 22:21

I haven't spoken to a woman wearing a bhurka as I have not had the opportunity to do so - but I'd be very happy to. I've had some good conversations with women in hijab.

emilybohemia · 15/01/2016 22:21

Twisted, this is a link to the thread I started giving info on a campaign that stands against all sexual violence and condemns the racist exploitation of the Cologne attacks by the far right.

The group have been chatting to Woman's Hour on twitter about one of them appearing on the programme.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/2548540-A-German-feminist-response-to-the-Cologne-attacksThere

rumbleinthrjungle · 15/01/2016 22:22

Ah right. So I'm late to the party and should shut up, rumble?

The intention was to signpost you to the information you were showing interest in, but feel free to be offended. Smile

travellingpeople · 15/01/2016 22:23

Do we have a consensus on wording or will i do the "far right" thing?
Observing reality = far right

VertigoNun · 15/01/2016 22:25

Did you receive pm?

TwistedReach · 15/01/2016 22:27

emily you have really impressively calmly kept going. It doesn't seem anyone here wants to stand up against Helps comments.

TheNewStatesman · 15/01/2016 22:29

"'Does anyone know if the wiping of CCTV by police has been verified? If so was it a whistleblower or reporter?'
It looks as if that was scare-mongering: in one of the articles linked to today - sorry, can't remember which one - it said the police were going through hours of footage (inc from mobiles) to try and ID some of the perps suspects."

Thank you for verifying this. One of the awful things about all these terrible coverups is that the rumors start flying thick and fast and it's easy to start falling into the trap of just believing ANYTHING.

SonyaAtTheSamovar · 15/01/2016 22:29

It s not my intention here to debate dress codes and women's right to choose their clothes twisted.

Sometimes one needs to pick out the salient issue .

SonyaAtTheSamovar · 15/01/2016 22:32

NewSttesment from what I could gather (and bearing in mind I know no polish!) It was a view put forward by a pundit on Polish TV , which is not independent anyway. No substantiation.

SonyaAtTheSamovar · 15/01/2016 22:32

I left university pressure politics a long time ago.

travellingpeople · 15/01/2016 22:33

Vertigo nun yes got it

SonyaAtTheSamovar · 15/01/2016 22:33

That was to Twisted.

LumelaMme · 15/01/2016 22:35

Twisted, I didn't agree with Help's comment.

That said, I see the burka as a symbol of female subjugation. A lady wearing a niqab once gave my DDs some sweets at a swimming pool (this was abroad, where giving DC you don't know sweets is seen as normal) and I wanted to catch her eye and smile to thank her, but because of the way she was dressed, I wasn't able to do so. I didn't want to go over and talk to her, in case that was felt to be intrusive (especially as, even with a towel, I would have been showing a lot of bare skin).

And that made me sad. I also felt dismayed that, while the men in her group were swimming, she and the other women with her were unable to join in. I wondered if that was her free choice.

TheNewStatesman · 15/01/2016 22:35

"I live in Morocco and I know that since Germany opened its borders to Syrian refugees, more and more young Moroccan men have been leaving the country. It is easy to fly to Turkey - Moroccans don't need visas as they do for most countries - and from there they join the genuine refugees from Syria. When they reach Greece, they are initially treated as refugees, but now they are more likely to be thrown out of the refugee camps. That doesn't discourage them, they go on looking for other ways to western Europe."

Morocco (and Algeria) are looking more and more like a smoking gun in this whole mess.

The Economist discussed demographic makeup and focused on the fact that the tilting towards young single men is not that pronounced among the Syrians, but is huge among the Moroccans and Algerians.The very high crime arrest rates, similarly, are being seen mainly among the Moroccans and Algerians--the Syrian men seem to be a lot less of an issue.

We need some proper investigation of what is going on here, as the PP said.

Months ago, some people did try to discuss or comment on this sort of issue ("There seem to be a lot of young men, most of the people don't actually seem to be Syrians" etc. etc.) but their comments, even when expressed in non-inflammatory language, were immediately shut down amidst accusations of racism and being a heartless person. So of course this was not properly looked into.

Pinkchampchoccies · 15/01/2016 22:36

www.berliner-zeitung.de/politik/schreckschusspistolen--reizgas--waffenscheine-immer-mehr-berliner-bewaffnen-sich,10808018,33534426.html

huge increase in gun sales in Berlin also after NYW.

rumbleinthrjungle · 15/01/2016 22:36

I' m a reality observer too Travelling. The wording is great, balanced and clear to my reading.

Pinkchampchoccies · 15/01/2016 22:37

*NYE

travellingpeople · 15/01/2016 22:39

"The EU authorities response to the recent mass sexual assaults on innocent girls and women is deplorable.We demand a debate re UK measures to ensure the safety of girls and women against mass sexual assault from men who do not share our culture or values."

Would peeps review this and make suggestion please?
I want to put on the end that we willl be arming ourselves as women who cannot rely on state for protection as seen from recent events.

MariscallRoad · 15/01/2016 22:40

www.ft.com/cms/s/0/386ed934-bb94-11e5-bf7e-8a339b6f2164.html#axzz3xGnQgegi
Taboos shattered as Germany agonises over Cologne attacks

Pinkchampchoccies · 15/01/2016 22:43

"Months ago, some people did try to discuss or comment on this sort of issue ("There seem to be a lot of young men, most of the people don't actually seem to be Syrians" etc. etc.) but their comments, even when expressed in non-inflammatory language, were immediately shut down amidst accusations of racism and being a heartless person. So of course this was not properly looked into."

...and this is the problem. I hope that this situation will bring about a massive rethink across the EU wrt transparency, freedom of speech, how to deal with issues like crime etc.in a multi-cultural and multi-ethnic European society. This has to happen.

instead women are told to shut up and put up with being harassed, unbelievably stupid

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