9/11. Not interested in a debate here, but can we just have a quick show of hands?

[AnotherEffingOrangeRevel]

I'm just interested in how many people around here are also highly skeptical of what we have been told about 9/11.

I'm really not after a debate (it would be long, involved, probably pointless and personally I have done this elsewhere), but I just wanted to see who is around.

It has very strong ongoing relevance for current world events.

Many thanks.

Agree with expat.

I'm less trusting of the OP's motives, mind. Comes across as pompous at best, looking for a bunfight to sit back and watch, at worst, probably having a piece to write on account of everyone else's thoughts.

And I definitely don't believe everything I see in the media. They're responsible for half the batshit conspiracy theories in the first place.

Conspiracy theories always require a super-efficient government.

And that's something I simply don't believe in.

I'm not sure what you mean. I believe it happened. I believe the planes were hijacked by "terrorists" and I don't believe those terrorists were US military or spies or agents or whatever.

I must admit to having no idea about the finer details of which individuals were involved and what if any relationship they had to Bin Laden.

Yes

You'd need to ask an unbiased question, or you'll have us all beating our wives/husbands/children.

Yes, I do think that there is information we do not have about 9/11. I also think there is much we are not told about a lot of the 'war on terror'.

Frankly I would be horrified if it were any different. The secret and security departments of various governments exist for a reason, and that reason is not to tell everyone, plus dogs, what the intelligence services do or do not know.

As for the meeja I would expect them to print whatever they could sell. So there are publications I would not read, others I would take with a pinch of salt and yet other that would make me think twice.

But if you are suggesting a wholesale conspiracy or cover up a) I don't care b) I doubt it c) stop reading the red tops!

Quite jeee, I don't think any government is capable of organising a cover up to the extent that many suggest.

Many thanks for the responses.

I can see why you'd be suspicious of my motives, ouryve. It's really difficult to have a thread about this. But I can tell you (and you can choose to believe me or otherwise) that I neither want a bunfight nor to write an article. On the contrary - I wanted to know other people's opinions without a bunfight (as I have really tried to emphasise), and I don't have any interest in writing an article about it (I am not a journalist and nor do I want to be one). It's something that it's difficult to gauge a general feeling about, so I thought I'd try asking.

Lots of people like it in the Matrix.

I too agree with Expat - and no, I don't elieve everything I read in the media.

Bit harsh Scottish?
Op is allowed to ask whatever she wants on here.
You don't have to join in!

Is it ok if I show fingers instead?

You are very naive to think people will come on and give a show of hands without debate and discussion. Are you naive about other things too? Like terrorism?

It's amazing that they never bothered investigating why WTC 7 fell down. Completely ignoring the implications for other buildings which might face similar disasters. How irresponsible. Thank fuck we have those 9/11 architects and engineers to lobby for one...

Oh wait, of course they did:
www.nist.gov/el/disasterstudies/wtc/

Given the US Administration's usual actions when one individual citizen is in danger no, I do not think they knew of the plot beforehand. They simply would not risk lives in that way, it goes against everything we know about US politics and patriotism.

I do think that both the UK and US governments knew there was a plot afoot, not because I'm a conspiracy theorist but because intelligence data has said there was terrorist chatter to that effect. However, I don't think they knew the nature, extent or location of the plot.

If you remember back that far the perception of threat from terrorism by Islamic Fundamentalists on Western soil was small.

As for flight 93 being shot down? I think it's possible, I cannot imagine having to make a decision like that given the events of that day, the choice is biblical in it's scope. IF that's what happened then I suppose the ultimate decision would have been made because they knew the plane would be used as a bomb and the passengers would have died with or without intervention.

I'm sure there are some things we don't know, that's the nature of intelligence services and rightly so.

In essence I do think we know all of the main facts and overall there was no conspiracy, it would have been too huge and too many people would have been involved. Speculation will not change the facts, reincarnate the dead or give comfort to the grieving.

No I don't believe the conspiracy theories.

Do you think there are fundamental untruths in what we have been led to believe (e.g., in the mainstream media) about 9/11?

No.

I believe the mainstream version of events.
ExH worked for the London office of one of the companies based in one of the towers.
There were 'open line' phones between them and he spent the time between the plane hitting and the tower collapsing talking to his colleagues and taking down the messages to pass on to their loved ones.
He was told on various occasions that everyone was evacuated, no one Jewish died, people were prewarned not to come into the office, etc etc.
He knows first hand it isn't true.
Incidentally, that company still holds an annual fundraising day, originally started to raise money for the families of the victims. It is supported by celebrities and politicians on both sides of the pond (and the royal family over here).
If there was any hint or possibility that it was either plotted or known about in advance, there is no way these people would be invited by the millionaire establishment company owners to be a part of the memorial event.

I think it's highly likely we've not been told everything, but I'm not sure to what extent.

The thing I found most strange about it was the response afterwards of lets go and invade Afghanistan and shut down terrorism. I don't believe that was the true motivation. I also don't believe that they felt they would truly be able to do that. And look at the mess they've created? The rise of ISIS is partly our fault for all the meddling we've done in the Middle East.

Yes.

We don't know the whole truth about anything. What we hear is what the government want us to hear. If it's not in their interests for us to hear it then we won't.

I do believe there are unexplained things about 9/11 to which we will never get the answers. I am more inclined to agree with the conspiracy theorists re the plane which hit the Pentagon.

Magz, there has been an investigation into WTC7. In great depth. The Architects and Engineers group are a bunch of fantasists who have already made up their mind and then try and twist any evidence to fit their preconceptions. For a start, what do architects know about structural behaviour? They may pick up bits from being involved in projects but are most definitely not qualified to say anything about the collapse. Most of the engineers aren't structural engineers, and of those that are, how many have expertise in high rise buildings subject to fires?

There is no widespread debate about WTC7 among structural engineers. It is clear that the building was brought down as a consequence of fires started by the collapse of the towers, with inadequate water available to fight the fires. That a tiny fraction of professionals have signed some petition shows nothing other than their stupidity.

Thanks again to all for responding. It's really interesting (to me, at least) to hear what people have to say.

For what it's worth, I also think there are some batshit-crazy conspiracy theories knocking around about 9/11. I just happen to think that the official explanation is one of them. There are plenty of other nonsensical theories out there though.