9/11. Not interested in a debate here, but can we just have a quick show of hands?

[AnotherEffingOrangeRevel]

I'm just interested in how many people around here are also highly skeptical of what we have been told about 9/11.

I'm really not after a debate (it would be long, involved, probably pointless and personally I have done this elsewhere), but I just wanted to see who is around.

It has very strong ongoing relevance for current world events.

Many thanks.

Claig! Let’s just run through a few nuggets that should helpfully dispel your surety of your stance on some issues here.

I’ve read through a lot of this thread but one of the things that gave me the darkest of laughs was your assertion that the Daily Mail was the people’s paper and the one in the UK most likely to tell the truth. The Daily Mail is a xenophobic rag with a very grimy history. It supports elite (or luvvy, as you say) right wing politics and has done so throughout the 20th and into the 21st century. It is owned as you say by Viscount Rothermere, Every holder of the title Viscount Rothermere has served as chairman of Daily Mail and General Trust plc. The clue to the ownership of this newspaper being in the hands of ‘the elite’ should be obvious due to the aristocratic title. A balanced view of the Daily Mail’s flirtation with the Nazi’s and fascism can be found here www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2011/dec/06/dailymail-oswald-mosley It may do a little good investigative reporting, especially on consumer issues but it’s editorial policy is unremittingly against the common person and absolutely pro elite politics.

Further on through the thread you mentioned crisis actors. The reason the crisis actor narrative is more than likely palpably untrue is that actors, especially in the USA tend to be highly narcissitic individuals who would do anything for attention and cash. The very fact of the thought that people would sign up to be actors to ‘act out’ these sort of tragedies would point to them being highly opportunistic, sociopathic types. Yet given that, the colossal cash bounty that someone like Alex Jones or the National Rifle Association would be willing to put up to tempt one of these crisis actors to come forward, no one has done so in order to claim their cash, fame and notoriety. Why do you think this is?

Alex Jones at infowars.com is a buffoon. The whole modus operandi of Jones is inarguably the obsufication of truth. He peddles fear and terror to his audience, which is also what the Bush administration did straight after 9/11 to bring in draconian laws and push for illegal wars. Jones uses the wheeze to switch off parts of peoples brains and then use it to sell them homeopathic products amongst other prepper garbage. Check out the history of the use of fear and terror in brainwashing. Also, can you really take someone seriously that puts up this sort of garbage on their news site as ‘infotainment’ - www.infowars.com/how-popular-culture-is-encouraging-promiscuity-2/

Donald Trump is not ‘the people’s choice.’ He is pandering to a rabid, religious, right wing demographic who are well known to be motivated by emotional appeal rather than evidence based reasoning. Trump’s big policy is to build a wall between Mexico and the U.S. and to forcibly deport 12,000,000, as they call them, ‘illegals.’ Can you think of any other administration that have embarked on such a policy on such a scale apart from the Nazis? I will only allow you to apply Godwin here if you can come up with a better example.

Lastly 9/11. There are some glaring inconsistencies in the government narrative, granted. However, it seems pretty conclusive that on the day at least, events unfurled pretty much as has been reported. There is however, some pretty strange information relating to the behaviour of the terror cell before the day of the attack itself, which, at least on at first glance, does not appear to tally with the official narrative. Try watching this and just for a moment, suspend your belief that you know the whole truth and there could be something for you to learn. Shame it’s on ufotv though!

Remember, absolute truth and certainly should be reserved for the religious and the clinically insane only. Once people find absolute truth, all reasoned thinking generally tends to stop and you get that ‘you are either for us or against us’ mentality. Absolute good and absolute evil. The world doesn’t tend to reveal itself like that. More often than not we tend to live in the hues and shades inbetween.

theunfairersex, I know what I talk of. I understand the game.

The original founder of the Daily Mail was not an aristocrat but a man who made money in publishing and fulfilling a need to educate and inform the people. He was ennobled by the Establishment, but originally he was not of the Establishment. The Daily Mail is a paper of the people which is why the Oxbridge elite class of servants to the elite don't like it and don't read it. They think they are far too clever to read the people pandering Daily Mail and they dislike its views on nearly every issue. They look down on it just as they look down on the people. The Daily Mail is a populist paper which is why it sells so well and it espouses populist sentiments in order to keep its populist readership (the good people of Middle England) and these populist sentiments are looked down on with disdain by the Oxbridge cadre of servants to the elites. The elite have goals and objectives that they wish to fulfil, they don't want populist oiks and anti politics politicians messing up the plans of their Oxbridge servant class. They don't like the Daily Mail. As Jonathan Powell, Blair's former Chief of Staff, said on TV once, the paper the politicians fear is not really a Murdoch paper, it is the Daily Mail. The reason for that is because the Daily Mail is the paper of the people. Of course, the Daily Mail occasionally tries to fool the people for its own ends, but on the whole it cannot afford to stray too far from the sentiments of the people or it would lose its readership. However, the Daily Mail editor is a real conservative and therefore believes in real conservative values. He is not Oxbridge, he is not luvvie, he is not elite, he is not one of them, he is one of us and that is why they don't like the Daily Mail and mock it at every opportunity.

'Yet given that, the colossal cash bounty that someone like Alex Jones or the National Rifle Association would be willing to put up to tempt one of these crisis actors to come forward, no one has done so in order to claim their cash, fame and notoriety. Why do you think this is?'

Because they believe they are serving a good cause, serving the elite, and they are not stupid enough to not realise that the elite would not be pleased with them if they sold their story.

'He peddles fear and terror to his audience'

Absolutely which is why many conspiracy researchers say that he is a phony and works for the elite. But in trying to gain credibility, he has to convince the people and therefore has to tell 90% of the truth in order to fool them on the 10%.

'Donald Trump is not ‘the people’s choice'

I think he is. Donald Trump is not Oxbridge, he is not a servant, he is not a bought and paid for puppet and he is not politically correct. He is everything the elite class hate and everything that their servant class are not. That is why he is so popular with the people, why he has consistently remained top of the Republican polls despite all the attempts of the Establishment's servants and media to discredit him. You have to understand that what Donald Trump says he will do is not what he will do. He is playing an act and that is what frightens the elites and that is why they have instructed their servant class to stop him. Trump is unpredictable, what he says is not what he will do, he is playing with them and they don't know what he will do when he gets into power. He doesn't go along with their anti Putin propaganda, he won't do as he is told, he iis not bought and paid for, he is not part of their servant class, and that is why they are desperate to stop him.

I watched the Venice Flying Circus video years and years ago. I am sure that Alex Jones must have interviewed Hopsicker years and years ago.

' Absolute good and absolute evil. The world doesn’t tend to reveal itself like that. More often than not we tend to live in the hues and shades inbetween.'

Absolutely. I am not saying I know the absolute truth. But I know enough to understand the game, to see through the spin, to spot the servants, to understand their lies and to know how they pull the wool over the people's eyes. And I am not the only one, which is why Trump is so popular among Republican voters. We all know that their "evidence based policies" are bullshit, that their WMD tales were lies. We know they are servants or as Trump calls them "puppets", that is why we hope that Trump makes it and ends the circus.

'I am sure that Alex Jones must have interviewed Hopsicker years and years ago.'

Alex Jones interviewed Daniel Hopsicker in 2005. It is on youtube if you are interested.

'Shame it’s on ufotv though!'

Well it will never be on the BBC, will it?

'Well it will never be on the BBC, will it?'

It will never be in the Daily Mail either of course. But there is far more chance of finding the truth in the Daily Mail than in the Oxbridge Guardian because the Daily Mail is like Donald Trump, outside the servant class and with the people.

Lets just focus on this for the moment shall we....

"You have to understand that what Donald Trump says he will do is not what he will do. He is playing an act and that is what frightens the elites and that is why they have instructed their servant class to stop him. Trump is unpredictable, what he says is not what he will do"

If ever there was a brainwashed automaton serving someones, although they know not who's agenda, it is you as 100% exemplified by this statement.

What may well be true though, is a statement someone made a while back that 'Trump is certainly not who people think he is'

Watch this www.democracynow.org/2015/8/19/david_cay_johnston_21_questions_for and then come back and defend him again

I may be giving you this information (which more than likely you'll probably tell me you knew 'years ago') because I am the head of the illuminati and have a vested interested in maintaining the status quo by vanquishing all rivals to the dustbin of history.

Or it could be that I am trying to help you out of a hole that you have dug yourself into.

What is certain, is to say that 'Trump is not Oxbridge' would you suggest that you aren't together all too sure as to what Oxbridge means, as most Americans aren't going to be Oxbridge. Are they?

Also given Trump's status and the fact that his sister, Maryanne Trump Barry, is a United States federal judge on senior status for the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit, it would appear that he isn't actually that far removed from the elite that you claim despises him.

Red pill, or blue pill?

I believe the terrorists did it. But I'm thinking something happened first. Seemed a random time to attack just because.

Are you saying that the Establishment are not scared that Trump will win?

"Terrified of Trump, GOP Establishment is Urging His Overthrow Before it’s Too Late
— October 21, 2015

Whether Republicans like it or not, billionaire real-estate magnate and entertainer Donald Trump is becoming the new face of the GOP. While Democrats are delighted at the prospect of running a candidate against Trump (both Sanders and Clinton outperform Trump in head-to-head matchups according to a number of polls), it has Establishment Republicans terrified. As a result, Trump’s own party is now calling for his takedown."

ringoffireradio.com/2015/10/21/terrified-of-trump-gop-establishment-is-urging-his-overthrow-before-its-too-late/

The Democrats may think they will beat him but they will be in for a surprise because since they went to Harvard, Yale and Oxbridge (on Rhodes scholarships) they don't really understand the people and their Daily Mail sentiments.

The entire Establishment is terrified of Trump because he is not a puppet, he doesn't do what they tell him and they can't predict what he will do. He has asked for the 911 investigation to be reopened, he is not politically correct, he is outside their Overton window of politically correct control, they don't know what he will do next and that is what frightens them.

'Watch this www.democracynow.org/2015/8/19/david_cay_johnston_21_questions_for and then come back and defend him again'

Yes, no man is an island. You can't get that high without making all sorts of deals. But that doesn't change the fact that he is not in the elite's pocket which is why they don't want him to become President and why they have instructed their servant class to try and stop him.

'I may be giving you this information (which more than likely you'll probably tell me you knew 'years ago') because I am the head of the illuminati and have a vested interested in maintaining the status quo by vanquishing all rivals to the dustbin of history.'

No, it is because you don't understand the game.

'What is certain, is to say that 'Trump is not Oxbridge' would you suggest that you aren't together all too sure as to what Oxbridge means, as most Americans aren't going to be Oxbridge. Are they?'

I use Oxbridge as a metaphor for what it represents, the servant class. Trump is not a politically correct puppet. He is not Oxbridge.

'Also given Trump's status and the fact that his sister, Maryanne Trump Barry, is a United States federal judge on senior status for the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit, it would appear that he isn't actually that far removed from the elite that you claim despises him.'

Trump must be being backed by someone.Who it is, we don't know. But the current elite are worried that he may become President and change everything, scrap their climate change con, stop the wars, rebuild America and save the middle class.

the elite that you claim despises him

claig didn't mean that elite. claig meant the other elite. You could always ask for clarification of which elite this is. In the past the answer has been "nobody knows".

I use Oxbridge as a metaphor for what it represents

This Humpty-Dumpty approach to words and meanings is why it's pointless to argue with the claigs of this world.

nauticant, Trump is not part of the elite, he is outside it, just like the Daily Mail, which explains why all the Oxbridge and Establishment servants are anti Trump and anti the Daily Mail.

Here is former Republican Presidential candidate, Pat Buchanan, a real conservative, on Trump and how the Republican elites want him out of the race. And of course the Republican elites are only a subset of the servants to the elite.

"GOP elites plot to purge Trump

Pat Buchanan: If GOP has no room for The Donald's followers, it has no future
...

But if the GOP has no room for Trump’s followers, it has no future. For there simply aren’t that many chamber-of-commerce and country-club Republicans.

Gerson mentions with disgust the U.K. Independence Party and France’s National Front. What do those parties have in common?

Both are anti-New World Order. Both arose to recapture the lost independence and sovereignty of their nations from the nameless, faceless bureaucrats of Brussels, those EU hacks who now dictate the kinds of laws and societies the Brits and French are permitted to have.

What motivates these folks is not all that different from what brought the farmers to Lexington Green and Concord Bridge and inspired colonists to stand by the original Tea Party boys in Boston.

New parties arise and outsiders are drawn into politics to fill voids and vacuums created by the failure of incumbent parties and politicians."

www.wnd.com/2015/08/gop-elites-plot-to-purge-trump/

There is a people's revolution all across the world, a Daily Mail revolution. People have lost faith in the servant class and can see the strings that their puppet masters control them with. That is why Trump will win and change the world.

Newsnight went to New Hampshire last night to speak about Trump and the rise of the anti politics phenomenon. They said that Europe had already experienced it and now it had come to America. Tonight they will discuss the Establishment lot - Clinton etc. But last night it was about Trump.

Elites all over the world are terrified of a Trump Presidency because they know their whole game will be up, all the servants will lose their jobs. It will be the end of the climate change con, the end of political correctness, the end of their control.

They will try their best to stop Trump. They will send the best teeenagers from Oxbridge that they can find to try and outsmart him, teenage whizzkids on stellar bonuses if they can dent his poll ratings and stop the people. But it won't work. Their game is up. Trump will deliver victory for the people.

See? Utter nonsense, where words and concepts have meanings so elastic as to be meaningless.

Are you saying that the Establishment are not scared that Trump will win?

I'm saying watch the video link above, (here it is again www.democracynow.org/2015/8/19/david_cay_johnston_21_questions_for ) which you obviously didn't do before as you posted back too quickly and then return with some reasoned arguments regarding what you saw and heard.

I'm guessing you won't do this as it will challenge your world view, and, just like most people, you are afraid that you might have to admit you are wrong and you've invested too much in what you think you know to let some of it go now.

In other words you are just a sheep, parroting the mainstream of conspiracy theory views a la Alex Jones. Baaaa!

Nauticant - nice name. I hear what you are saying but there is a point to this pointlessness!

And when Trump wins, the Guardian will be in mourning, servants will be silent, the Daily Mail will rejoice and the people will party like it's 1999. The whole world will change when Trump takes charge. That is why there is so much panic in elite circles and so much joy among the people.

'which you obviously didn't do before as you posted back too quickly and then return with some reasoned arguments regarding what you saw and heard'

I didn't watch it because I already know the arguments, I understand the game.

Can you summarise it? Are the progressives saying that Trump is in with the mob and has had to do deals with them? Do you think the elite aren't?

The point is Trump is not the elite which is why they want to stop him.

They will send the best teeenagers from Oxbridge that they can find to try and outsmart him, teenage whizzkids on stellar bonuses

Comedy gold!!

Knock yourself out theunfairersex! (A genuine hazard of repeatedly hitting your head against a brick wall.)

'They will send the best teeenagers from Oxbridge that they can find to try and outsmart him, teenage whizzkids on stellar bonuses

Comedy gold!!'

Absolutely. It's W1A. That's the type of luvvie they have got, but they are no match for Trump and the people.

No, I can't summarise it Claig. Watch or listen to it.

You are a typical proponent of the views you represent. You think you know everything and therefore you will not watch or listen to anything that challenges your world view.

You think you have all the answers and want to change everyone to your own way of thinking. Much like a recent religious convert or born again lunatic.

You said you didn't watch it because you know the arguments and understand the game. Let me refer you to what I said earlier - As soon as someone thinks they know everything and have the one correct answer, all conscious thinking has stopped.

You said you didn't have the whole truth but your replies clearly demonstrate that you do think you are a sole beneficiary of the divine word of Trump and what it means for the world.

I can at this moment only come to two conclusions (although there are more)

You are either an automated bot, or a deluded dupe.

If it is the former and you are a bot, please congratulate your maker, as you have achieved a reasonable level of lucidity for a software program.

If it is the latter, you need to take a course in verbal reasoning.

Do you believe in "The Rapture" as well?

You have to understand that this is not a joke. America is the most powerful country in the world and if Trump takes charge, it is curtains for the elite's games - their climate change ones, their political correctness etc worldwide.

That is why planes to the United States will be full of politically correct teenagers from Oxbridge, whizzkids, geeks and spinners in think tanks being sent over in a desperarte attempt to help the US elites stop Trump and the people.

If they don't succeed, their whole game will be up, the Daily Mail will double its daily sales and the servants will be out of a job, whether it is in one of their charidees, thgink tanks, quangos or publicly funde lobby groups. No more gravy train, no more spin, no more wages. It's depserate for them. They are not laughing abvout it, they are tearing their hair out. It is only the people who are laughing.

"Panicked establishment gets ready for war against Trump
...
That doesn't mean Republicans have made their peace with a Trump victory. On the contrary — some are preparing to do whatever it takes to bring him down. Which could lead to an extraordinary scenario in which GOP stalwarts go to war to destroy their own party's likely nominee.

Over the weekend I talked to a leading conservative who opposes Trump. I asked what would happen if January comes and Trump is still dominating the race. Would he and other conservatives make their peace with Trump's candidacy, or would there be massive resistance?

"Massive resistance," was the answer. "He's not a conservative."

www.washingtonexaminer.com/trump-takedown-panicked-establishment-readies-for-war-against-gop-front-runner/article/2574454

They have to stop Trump. It's more than their job's worth to do anything else, they are servants, phony conservatives. Trump is with the people, a real conservative.

'You think you know everything and therefore you will not watch or listen to anything that challenges your world view.'

I already know what the teenage whizzkids will say. They will probably say he is with the mob. But I say, what about the elite? Aren't they?

'You think you have all the answers and want to change everyone to your own way of thinking.'

No I don't. I said Alex Jones may work for them. We don't know. Alex Jones is not sure Trump is for real and nor am I. He may be a trick to let Establishment Clinton win. We don't know yet. All we can do is hope that he is for real and will end their climate change game. We know they are terrified of Trump, let's hope he wins.

'As soon as someone thinks they know everything and have the one correct answer, all conscious thinking has stopped.'

No, I am saying that even if he did a deal with the mob to build a building which created employment, so what? Do you think the elite haven't?

'You said you didn't have the whole truth but your replies clearly demonstrate that you do think you are a sole beneficiary of the divine word of Trump and what it means for the world.'

I haven't got the whole truth, only my understanding of it.

'You are either an automated bot, or a deluded dupe.'

The only automated bots are the teenagers thatthe Establishment uses, so I'm not one of them. It is possible that I am a deluded dupe but highly unlikely as I don't read the Guardian and get my facts from the Daily Mail.

Let's wait and see who wins the US Presidential race, the choice of the Establishment and their bots or the choice of the people, Donald Trump.

'Do you believe in "The Rapture" as well?'

No I don't. As even Alex Jones would say, that type of thing is pushed by the elite to con the people.

If you think Corbyn was a nightmare for our Establishment, you don't understand how panicked they all are about Trump.

Corbyn swallows all the climate change crap, even though his excellent brother is against the bullshit. But Trump is against it. He bravely tweeted

"This global warming BULLSHIT has got to stop!"

Now, do you understand why they are so terrified of him? They hope he is joking, they hope he doesn't mean it, but they can't be sure and that is what keeps them up at night.

As Pat Buchanan, a real conservative, wrote (while laughing out loud with the people)

"Can Trump Be Stopped?
...
The lights are burning late tonight in the suites of the establishment tonight. For not since Sen. Barry Goldwater won the California primary in 1964 have their prospects appeared so grim."

buchanan.org/blog/can-trump-be-stopped-124186

There are teenage whizzkids on overtime, burning the midnight oil, thinking up all manner of spin to try and do the people down, but all their plans and schemes are in vain, for the people and Trump are going to win.

'Do you believe in "The Rapture" as well?'

No I don't. As even Alex Jones would say, that type of thing is pushed by the elite to con the people.

No, it's pushed by a lot of mainstream christian organizations in the states to the rabid right wing religious zealots that Trump is courting for support and professing his love of god to.

And sorry to burst your bubble, but Alex Jones believes in it as well. Why do you always think he thinks something terrible is on the way?

"The coming collapse" is purely belief in "The Rapture" sublimated in to a more palatable form for, at present, only partially lobotomized believers.

However, if you were to read that goon cartoon World News Daily (tell me you don't it's fu,cking ridiculous!) they spout off about the rapture being imminent (and immanent) all the time.

I go there when I want a good laugh.

It's just another religious tool being used to scare you and keep you docile, whatever form it takes.

You're as brainwashed as the rest of them there folks you think as foolish servants of the elite. You just can't see it.

Bye!

As Pat Buchanan, a real conservative, wrote

Would that be the Pat Buchanan that believes in The Rapture?