Chrissie Hynde said that victims of assault have to take responsibility

[Gymbunny1204]

She's been interviewed by the Sunday Times.

Wearing short skirt, high heels, drunk - implies your fault if raped. Dressed like that you need to be able to run. She says.

She was assaulted at age 21. Says her fault she went with the men.

I hate her for making me think for a split second it was my fault I was abused as a child for running to the loo in just a top which did cover my bottom, I had no pants on. In front of the abuser.

Piece in the daily mail about her interview.

I suspect she has a record to promote.

No AskBasil
I did not say this
"Mainkster earlier on in the thread, you said women shouldn't wear high heels in case they get raped"

I simply did not. I said that women should take some safety measures.

How weird. Consindering this is the final sentence of your first post...

So (on that basis) women need to keep safe, don't walk about alone, drunk and an shoes you can't run in.

"'So (on that basis) women need to keep safe, don't walk about alone, drunk and an shoes you can't run in."

OK, Mainkster, let me explain to you what's wrong about this, point by point:

1. Don't walk alone. Actually, walking alone is much safer than taking a taxi or walking accompanied by a man. Taxi drivers have been known to rape women (I suggest you look up John Worboys, though that isn't the only example), and men accompanying women home also rape them. (Again, try looking up the case of the Aberystwyth student a few years ago who was accompanied to her accommodation by a man who raped her.) Perhaps women should always walk in groups but for logistical reasons this always isn't possible (there always has to be a last person home).

1. Don't get drunk. Well, I guess no-one should get drunk, should they? Men shouldn't get drunk either, because they might be beaten up, or indeed raped. (Because men get raped too, you know, though apparently it's never their fault.) And it may have escaped your notice, but these days rapists like to spike their victims' drinks to knock them out - look up Yasmin Alibhai-Brown's article in the Mail about what happened to her daughter.

1. Don't wear shoes you can't run in - unless, of course, you are forced to wear uncomfortable shoes by your workplace or by an event you're attending. (Remember the rule at Cannes this earlier, that women weren't admitted to the red carpet unless they were wearing heels?) Try turning up at a smart dinner in trainers or flats.

Of course, that's not the only reason why the point about shoes is silly. Has it ever occurred to you that men, on the whole, are much stronger and faster than women? Chrissie-Hynde was gang-raped - do you seriously think that if she'd been wearing trainers, she'd have been able to run away from a whole group of men? Men who were not only stronger and faster but were determined and co-ordinated.

This is the truth: if women want to avoid being raped, they need to stay away from men. They should avoid having boyfriends or husbands or male relatives. They should work in women-only workplaces. They should socialise only with other women. They should never travel on public transport. If they take a taxi, they should make sure it's driven by a woman. (Of course, women women who do those things tend to get labelled lesbians and man-haters, because the one thing we can't expect from misogynists is logic or consistency.)

Mainkster: here's a challenge for you. You can continue to spout stupid, ignorant, ill-informed views on forums like this, or you can choose to educate yourself and return a better-informed - and ideally - humbler person.

Your choice. I'm not holding my breath.

At the end of the day - the message to women is always - look good because men like you to look good. But if you look good, then you run the risk of rape.

So if you could all wear sack cloths, never leave the house without an escort, never go out and have any fun, and be live your life in a constant state of 'Fight or flight' then that would be tickety boo - cheers ladies.

Of course, nowadays whether i wear sky high stiletto heels or running spikes, every shoe is now one i cannot run in (from my wheelchair). How do i keep myself safe now, when my chair will only go at a maximum of power-walking speed?

If i were an arse, i'd point out that the 'shoes you can run in' comment is ablenormative...

Just a comment to Icouldbeso - we were burgled a couple of years ago & the police basically told me it was my fault. Burglars broke into the house while we were at home, I'd locked up & all downstairs windows were closed but I left the key in the back door. The burglars smashed a window next to the door & got the key & came in. Some work colleagues, friends etc also said -Oh you shouldn't have left the key in - & I am stuck with the feeling that if I had taken the key out then the burglars might have checked out the house but decided to move on & try another. I'm not clear what they would have done if there were no "easy" houses to break in - go down the job centre & look for a job with a wage? But - I still feel it was my fault.
I would guess that Chrissy Hynde may have been told several times that she could have avoided what happened to her & so, like me with the burglary, it has just got ingrained into her that she was responsible. Do you ever get over that feeling?

The big difficulty with this discussion is that some of you lack basic comprehension skills and some of you are just looking for a fight because you're angry peeps.
Sorry about that
Anyway, on with my lovely comprehending non angry day. :)

The big difficulty with this discussion is that some of you lack basic comprehension skills and some of you are just looking for a fight because you're angry peeps.
Sorry about that
Anyway, on with my lovely comprehending non angry day. smile

You sound like a child

Not angry Mainkster, just sad and particularly sad for OP and peeps like her and sad for you and your ancient viewpoint. Did you vote UKIP btw? Would love to see how gorgeous you look on a night out. Perhaps you could post a pic to show us how women should look on a night out (hide your face but do tell us if you wear any make up or have your hair looking fab) so that we can gain these comprehension skills that you feel we don't have. Educate us.... please .....

PS - I think your 'non' is in the wrong place
Anyway, on with my lovely comprehending non angry day.

It should read "Anyway, on with my lovely non comprehending, angry day"

I can see shoe shops being forced to carry the warning of "these high heeled shoes may get you raped, we assume no responsibility of what happens to you when wearing them".

lweji and the same for bikinis/swimwear at the beach and swimming pools.

"No AskBasil
I did not say this
"Mainkster earlier on in the thread, you said women shouldn't wear high heels in case they get raped"

I simply did not. I said that women should take some safety measures."

Ah yes, you said "women need to keep safe don't walk about alone, drunk and an shoes you can't run in."

So you didn't say high heels specifically, you said any shoes women can't run in.

Well guess what, all my shoes, sandals etc., I can't run in. I can only run in trainers, I can sort of hobbly-run in some of my flatter shoes, but I can't out and out run, properly and even in trainers, I probably can't outrun a man who has decided he's going to rape me.

So should I wear trainers all the time on the off-chance that any rapist I meet will be so unusual that he's slower than me, or should I accept that there's no point me wearing trainers all the time and just accept that by wearing my sandals, crocs, work shoes etc., I'm not "keeping myself safe"?

I notice that you don't actually answer any of the questions put to you, you just virtually gurn and snigger and insult people. Which is what people who are losing the argument, do a lot. Just sayin'.

Yup, basil. Almost funny isnt it, if it werent such a serious subject.

I was wearing denim shorts with leggings under a t shirt and trainers, reebok pump trainers to be precise, do you remember the trainers that had a pump in the tongue and you pumped them up, they were the height of cool.

I also went out with a group of friends, I wasn't drunk. One of those 'friends' sadly thought he was entitled to ignore me when I said no.

For a long time I thought perhaps I didn't say no enough, maybe I should have shouted more or fought back more. Instead I froze.

But I had followed the 'rules'...

For some reason my subconscious keeps re-writing a certain poster's user name as "Wankstain". Can't think why.

to all those on this thread who have been attacked, and who have met with such horrible responses when they try to talk about it.

"I notice that you don't actually answer any of the questions put to you, you just virtually gurn and snigger and insult people. Which is what people who are losing the argument, do a lot. Just sayin'."

Well, quite.

Mainkster

"The big difficulty with this discussion is that some of you lack basic comprehension skills and some of you are just looking for a fight because you're angry peeps."

You're talking about yourself, I guess.

People on this thread have tried patiently to explain to you in simple, clear terms, over and over again why you're wrong. They've used logic, and they've used evidence. You seem absolutely determined not to understand and not to engage with what people are saying. I wrote a lengthy post explaining addressing your points in simple language that most people could understand.

But I'm not surprised that you didn't attempt to engage with them. You don't want to. You're guilty not just of stupidity, which is bad enough, but of wilful stupidity. You would prefer to ignorant and ill-informed and prejudiced than to listen to people who are not only far more intelligent but infinitely better informed than you are.

Your loss.

"The big difficulty with this discussion is...blah blah blah"

The difficulty is that to have a discussion, two sides must be having a conversation. This is one side conversing while the other posts pathetic non-posts about fuck all :)

Well I've only read the first few pages of this thread, and now it's got angry.

It seems so obvious to (most of) us nowadays that the victim isn't to blame for being attacked, but Chrissie was probably born in the fifties or sixties (?) and it takes a long time for attitudes to change.

What a shame, though. People in the public eye really should think about what they say in interviews.

I never liked that Julie Hartley-Brewer, stupid bint.

I remember a young guy was drunk and got gang raped (or something awful like that) at a party and someone did an article on it saying all the things the boy should have done to keep himself safe, but he failed. There was outrage about it, with everyone completely missing the point that it was done to highlight the fact that not one single person had uttered anything of the sort. I wish I could find the article, it was a good few years ago.

Because it had happened to a man, nobody could even countenance that it was anything other than a vile and unprovoked rape, because we don't have the unconscious bias that men's bodies are there to be used by other men.

But I'm not surprised that you didn't attempt to engage with them. You don't want to. You're guilty not just of stupidity, which is bad enough, but of wilful stupidity. You would prefer to ignorant and ill-informed and prejudiced than to listen to people who are not only far more intelligent but infinitely better informed than you are.

Your loss.

Very well said.

Iamabove and Gymbunny I am so sorry for what you both suffered.
Almost everyone here supports you, so please ignore the trolls.

The rapist is always 100% responsible for the rape;
The victim has 0% responsibility to take.
No ifs, no buts. No more excuses for violent men.

CH is trying to feel safe, by convincing herself that she can't be raped agian because she'll always be careful.
But being careful doesn't stop rapists.

Other women who claim women should "take more responsibility for their safety" are also trying to feel safe, that it could never happen to them because they don't behave like those rape victims.
But it's the behaviour of the rapist that causes rape.

Even if a woman superglues all her bodily orifices, wears a chastity belt and a full burkha she's not 100% safe. They'll claim she should have used better glue, heavier locks, always been accompanied by a male family member - who may be her rapist ....

A woman is only vulnerable because some men choose to rape.
Stop criticising women who were victims of a rapist
Instead, campaign against rapists.

Was raped by bf. Think he intended to do so regardless of my clothing.

Chrissy Hynde has got some neck saying I was asking for it. I was only on a night out. Thought I was safe, considering was with bf.

I wonder if she'd say that date rape and spousal rape are real rapes too.

Sorry, to be clear, I wonder what her opinion is. They are rape. End of.

The only explanation I can come up with for her comments is that she feels that her rape was her fault. People find all kinds of ways of coping with trauma, and I'd say that self blame is one of the most common.

However, I'm incredibly disappointed that she would make such spurious remarks.

If sex isn't consensual then it's rape. The only one to blame is the rapist.
How people justify taking a rape apologist stance is beyond me.