Part 7: Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

[AndHarry]

Thread 1 - started when 3 Israeli boys were found murdered

Thread 2 - Operation Protective Edge

Thread 3 - Operation Protective Edge, the wider conflict and international involvement

Thread 4 - Operation Protective Edge and the different views in Israel and the wider international community

Thread 5 - in which Operation Protective Edge came to an end and the discussion continued

Thread 6 - themes of the conflict, what happens next and how ordinary people can get involved

Welcome to Thread 7.

There you go again Sabrina, bully tactics, I am as entitled to be on MumsNet as you are, I do believe in peace, and I do not have to defend myself against you as to why I am a member of MumsNet, is that the best you can do bullying me? you show your true colours I think. Again dispraportionate? would you be happy if the rockets had killed more Israeli civilians and children, would that make it okay? The fighting has to stop on both sides, people need to stop defending terrorist organisations and help. And, Yruapita, Israel offered 99% of the PA requests for peace and they rejected them, or do you think Israel should have no terms for peace? "from the river to the sea" means the destruction of Israel and the Jews, you cannot expect them to accept that surely? There has to be compromise on both sides and that is my suggestion to promote peace and trust, not an easy solution and ceartainly not a quick one but mor conducive to peace

Israel is the occupying force - it has a duty not to wage war on the civilians living in Gaza like that. It is not an equal fight.

But I've said all this before.

Stop accusing posters of bullying you, Nipper. It's a tiresome low tactic.

Did you read the AI reports? I suspect not from your posts - because they also condemn the Hamas rockets (as do I).

The problem is, as has been pointed out numerous times - we are talking about loss of human life here. A disproportionate response by Israel. A flouting of International Law by Israel, an occupying force. The equivalent of a toddler slapping an adult, and then being beaten to death in response. And no amount of your pontification will change that.

Exactly! No compromise on your part for peace, my way or the highway seems to be your answer, your only solution is the distruction of Israel rather than a two state solution, I rest my case.

About the so-called peace offer,

The Israeli group Gush Shalom stated that "the offer is a pretense of generosity for the benefit of the media", and included detailed maps of what the offer specifically entailed.[38] Among Gush Shalom's concerns with Barak's offer were Barak's demand to annex large settlement blocs (9% of the West Bank) with no Israeli land given to a proposed Palestinian state in return, the lack of contiguity that the settlement blocs would cause for a Palestinian state, lack of trust in the commitment and/or ability of the Israeli government to evacuate the thousands of non-bloc Israeli settlers in the 15-year timeline, limited sovereignty for Palestinians in Jerusalem.

In 2006, Shlomo Ben-Ami, the then israeli Minister of Foreign Relations stated on Democracy Now! that "Camp David was not the missed opportunity for the Palestinians, and if I were a Palestinian I would have rejected Camp David, as well.

source

I don't call for the 'distruction' of Israel. I call for them to stop using over-aggressive tactics in Gaza, the damage is done. The infrastructure is in ruins, thousands dead and the survivors suffering PTSD and struggling to survive.

Yet Israel blocks aid to the Gazans, refuses Amnesty and others access to Gaza. And you talk of peace! People of Gaza are just hoping to survive at the moment.

Nipper, at no point has sabrina said anything about destruction if israel. Its getting tedious listening to israel supporters claim that anyone who disagrees with israel must want it destroyed.

But the destruction of israel and the Jews is exactly what from the river to the sea means!

A brilliant article in the FT, saying it how it is:

www.ft.com/cms/s/0/dd6c05ce-822e-11e4-ace7-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3M1DhAGKN

I don't want the destruction of Israel, I want a halt to the destruction of Gaza. That is clear from my posts.

I do support the right of Israel to exist. I do support the right of Palestinians to live without oppression - and you have to admit that it is the Palestinians in Gaza who are suffering the destruction here.

If you agree that, then you have to look at compromise and what you consider to be "occupied" land, the English are from England, the Irish are from Ireland, the Jews are from Judah. Absolutely Gaza has suffered terrible destruction, they need to stop firing rockets, building terror tunnels and suicide bomber, the 3 young boys that were killed is the straw that broke the camel's back, I do not want to see this fighting start again, I am sure nobody does, but again there HAS to be compromise on both sides but it will take a long time before either side will trust each other and if terrorist attacks continue I can never see an end to this conflict

Israel needs to let foreign Aid agencies and Amnesty International into Gaza. There is a humanitarian crisis there, and Israel are blockading aid and access to people -civilian men women and children- that need it.

You see we are having an intelligent discussion and untruths come in, Israel allows aid into Gaza, in fact they give aid ,have you not seen any of the reports of Palestinians that get treated in Israeli hospitals? The only time the aid stops is when there is a terrorist attack and they have have to stop access for a time, the Palestinians even fired rockets at aid coming into Gaza during the conflict. While on that subject I do not see you condemning Egypt's actions who will not open the border are blowing up Palestinian homes and not allowing aid through???? When untruths are told this is when it perpetuate the demonizing of Israel and does not advocate peace but incites hate

They let minimal aid in. They planned for Gazans to be on a starvation diet. They bombed the power station, University and infrastructure. They are still demolishing houses. They are still killing Palestinian children.

The blockading of aid into Gaza has been a problem since way before the wanton destruction waged by the IDF this summer. I seem to remember the Gaza Flotilla Raid being an issue back in 2010.

Why won't they let Amnesty in?

They bombed schools and hospitals too, containing sheltering children, of course, even more heinous.

I'm off to bed. Look forward to hearing why more aid/Amnesty aren't allowed access to Gaza.

I agree Israel will not led Amnesty into Gaza at present, I am not in the government, I do not know why, however Amnesty International does not supply aid, the Israeli authorities still let aid into Gaza. Egypt has not allowed Amnesty to cross their borders either and they do not let aid through to Gaza so if you are going to critisie lack of aid I suggest you point the finger at Egypt? No? Just Israel? So although you are right they are not letting Amnesty International cross border at present Israel are not preventing aid into Gaza, however they did prevent a delivery of guns and swords from being delivered to East Jerusalem!. Israel allows delivery of all aid and building materials through the Erez crossing to Gaza as well as Palestinians who need treatment in Israeli hospitals and field hospitals for the Palestinians, which is more important in my view, I presume yours as well as the welfare of civilians is of uppermose convern

have you noticed not a single person condemning IDF actions has resorted to say all israelis are x, or jews are y despite constantly being accused of hating israel and anti-semitism YET the pro israel doing whatever it wants crew always resort to racism and hideous hate speech. repeating that filled statement about palestinians not loving their children was disgusting.

the constant insistance of speaking of hamas and innocent civilians as one in the same is disgusting.

how come we can distinguish between IDF actions and israeli policy and individual israeli people yet the support israel whatever it does people cannot do the same for palestinian children even?

it is because the stance is so inherently based on racial hatred and dehumanisation and it is bloody sad to read people apparently educated enough to use the internet and write in whole sentences and articulate their views be so contaminated with such hideous base instincts.

the writing off of dead children as the wrong pictures or 'hamas put them in the way of harm' is beyond vile! dead children. the people to blame are the people who CHOSE to blow the fuck out of them and the cultural climate which allows them to be so loathed and dehumanised that military personnel think nothing of blowing the fuck out of them innocently playing on a beach.

i'm disgusted by what is pure racial hatred being displayed here. to defend the murdering of children on the basis that they are palestinian therefore terrorists, therefore not 'real' children, therefore legitimate targets somehow or their murder is someone else's fault is unbelievable.

this is pure racial hatred - all bets are off because of the ethnicity of the victims.

there's also a whole imperialist, colonial rhetoric going on. the civilised nation in the barbaric wilds having to deal with the savages and expecting support from the rest of the world based purely on an assumption of shared racial or developmental superiority.

this is the 21st century. fucking catch up.

Nippernoo

In your opinion, is jam a weapon of war which Israel's blockade is entitled to prevent Gaza from importing?

Egypt? It's all about deflection, isn't it? Anything to deflect from the dead civilians, anything to try and justify the unjustifiable.

Israel allows delivery of all aid and building materials through the Erez crossing to Gaza as well as Palestinians who need treatment in Israeli hospitals and field hospitals for the Palestinians

This is simply not true.

Before the atrocities committed in Gaza this summer, blockades were already in place, the Palestinians had food, medical aid and their freedoms restricted - and this is still happening. This is fact - these restrictions have been documented by the Israeli govt.

And they could let Dr Gilbert back - but they won't because he will speak out about the atrocities committed by Israel, and the conditions in Gaza. Like Amnesty. And Israel really doesn't like people documenting it's breaches of International Law.

whilst being blown to pieces in this latest fucking idf jolly they lacked enough of even the most basic supplies such as bandages and antibiotics to treat people due to the blockade prior to it - didn't make much difference to the hospitals who were targeted by bombs obviously.

You all go off on a tirade, where did I say it did not matter about Palestinian children, infact I clearly state that nobody wants children dead on either side (don't see you mention any of the Israeli children?). Even during the conflict Israel (not Egypt who again you all fail to critisize?) opened the borders and let supplies through to Gaza (that is when rockets were not being fired at the supplies coming in???!!!) Regarding the blockade already being in place, do you not follow why there borders are like this with security i.e. suicide bombers? or are you saying that is okay? If supplies were not getting through where did all the building supplies to build terror tunnels arrive from? Again you are all bashing Israel instead of saying that these two peoples need to be able to sit down and sort out their difference for a peaceful 2 state solution. Oh and regarding jam, this was proved to be another falsehood from our wonderful press. I am not even going to start when you repeat accusations that have already been discussed HoneyBadger. People have differing opinions and social media is the place where we can all discuss them but not be shouted down, otherwise nobody will learn anything from anybody elses point of view, i.e. listening

I have just had a quick look at this since I posted last night and the page is full of hate for Israel. Without being vicious - can someone who is so anti Israel please tell me how they propose peace. The only way forward is to find a way for peace. I don't suppose I will get a rational answer.

it's been put forward very simply - obey international law, cease committing war crimes, allow in UN and other inspectors and follow their recommendations.

that's not hating israel that's expecting israel to comply with international law.