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Part 5: Israeli-Palestinian conflict

999 replies

AndHarry · 04/08/2014 22:41

New thread again.

Thread 1 - started when 3 Israeli boys were found murdered.

Thread 2 - in which we mainly discussed Operation Protective Edge.

Thread 3 - in which we continued to discuss Operation Protective Edge, the wider conflict and international involvement.

Thread 4 - in which Operation Protective Edge was examined further and we looked at the different views from inside Israel and the international community.

Another reminder of the Mumsnet Talk Guidelines.

OP posts:
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8
saadia · 05/08/2014 14:54

Clutches head at the thought that it is ok for Israel to be supplied with weapons by the world's biggest superpower, with no questions asked, while the Palestinians must be unarmed,

This is sounding alarmingly like the arms blockade that was imposed on Bosnian Muslims when they were being attacked by Serbia.

goldvelvet · 05/08/2014 14:54

IsItme

did you know that 2/3 of the pollution of Gaza are Children? You are essentially waging a war on children, that can not and do not fight back and are of no threat to Israel and it's people.

All those dead babies, children & teens - What for? And the sickening thing this isn't the first time, the last time Israel attacked 1200 lives were lost many of them children. Some children have lived through up to 3 wars. What is their hope and their future?

Isitmebut · 05/08/2014 14:57

QUESTION; can anyone provide a qualified link to any non involved government that is supporting Hamas, rather than showing outrage at the deaths of those poor Palestinians in Gaza, caught in the crossfire with Israel?

Hands up world, who is supporting Islamists Jihadists, that could be training people inside your country one day?

goldvelvet · 05/08/2014 15:05

So what you are saying is.

If you had a building and with 6 children and 3 adults and one of these was a member of Hamas.

Your duty of care is with the eight innocent people. But Israel does not apply by this logic they seem it fit to flatten the lot.

and you call it crossfire Hmm

QnBoudi · 05/08/2014 15:06

Sad piece about Palestinian footballer (please note, isitme, not a Hamas fighter) Ahed Zaqout. It offers another alternative to demos, boycotts, petitions, emails, flowers etc.

www.thenation.com/blog/180870/his-name-was-ahed-zaqout-former-palestinian-soccer-star-killed-gaza#

goldvelvet · 05/08/2014 15:07

*abide

Isitmebut · 05/08/2014 15:08

Goldvelvet .... if 2/3rds are children, which I doubt based on the lack of facts on here, then that means if Hamas has 45,000 at arms and heaven knows how many the Islamic Jihad, the Al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigade, the Popular Resistance Committees and The Army of Islam have - no wonder Hamas got voted in.

If 2/3rd are children, it makes you wonder why Hamas wants them sitting on and between so many hundreds of tons of explosives, while pursuing their agenda against Israel.

Surely the onus is on their own government to put the welfare of those children first, so Hamas should leave Gaza for the sake of those children and the prospects of a lasting peace with Israel.

Why would the world put the 'rights' of 45,00 armed thugs who want perpetual war without a final solution that involves a State of Israel, above so many children?????

Isitmebut · 05/08/2014 15:12

Goldvelvet .... as I believe there are 1.7 million in Gaza, could you please provide a qualified link confirming that 2/3rd in Gaza are children? Tnx.

claig · 05/08/2014 15:12

Have you got a link to the 45,000 fighters figure? Who says Hamas has "45,000 at arms"?

nicename · 05/08/2014 15:16

When you dehumanise 'the enemy' you don't see men, women or children.

Isitmebut · 05/08/2014 15:23

Claig ..... your wish, is my command.

www.trust.org/spotlight/Israeli-Palestinian-conflict/?tab=briefing
"Hamas effectively retains its security grip in Gaza in the absence of Fatah forces there. Hamas’ militia there, the Qassam Brigades, numbers 25,000, and it also controls a further 20,000 armed personnel."

goldvelvet · 05/08/2014 15:23

IsItme was that link to your satisfaction?

Isitmebut · 05/08/2014 15:33

nicename .... no one here wants to 'dehumanise the enemy', to justify what cannot be, but maybe that was why in the 'good old days' Hamas used to use suicide vests on Israeli buses, where you get to see the terror on the childrens faces when they see whats about to happen - while the bomber has no conscience to live with, and gets to sit to the left of Allah with thousands of virgins. Isn't that how the promise goes?

There will be no peace while Hamas runs Gaza, and to think there ever could be based on their stated objective to destroy Israel by the best means Hamas can afford, is naive at best.

Hakluyt · 05/08/2014 15:36
goldvelvet · 05/08/2014 15:37

Isitme
''Surely the onus is on their own government to put the welfare of those children first, so Hamas should leave Gaza for the sake of those children and the prospects of a lasting peace with Israel''

With your logic then surely Israel should stop dropping bombs on children?
Israel has done more damage to children of Gaza than Hamas. Israel should put the welfare of any children their own or those of Gaza.

A child is a child which ever side of boarder it sleeps.

Hakluyt · 05/08/2014 15:37

Isitme- do you condone the bombing of UN safe havens?

Isitmebut · 05/08/2014 15:39

goldvelvet ... sorry, I've read it three times and no where did I see that 2/3rds of the population of Gaza is children - please cut and paste the para you see that. If not don't worry, I have to go now, I'll look it up myself later.

goldvelvet · 05/08/2014 15:40

Watch the video in the article.

goldvelvet · 05/08/2014 15:41

and the one Hak posted.

claig · 05/08/2014 15:42

There will be no peace while Hamas runs Gaza, and to think there ever could be based on their stated objective to destroy Israel by the best means Hamas can afford, is naive at best.'

'"The former Israeli Intelligence Minister called for negotiations with Hamas in an interview with CNN’s Christiane Amanpour on Tuesday."'

Is the former Israeli Intelligence Minister naive?

Isitmebut · 05/08/2014 15:44

Hakluyt .... of course I do not, any more than I condone 3,000 Hamas missiles/rockets fired without ANY target in mind, so could have hit 3,000 schools, if not shot out of the sky.

I doubt any Israeli would intensionally target the U.N. or any other such facility, and without having a CSI operation out there, who is to say that a Hamas, or any other Islamic Jahidst fuck-wit, has not fired a dud rocket etc themselves.

Hakluyt · 05/08/2014 15:48

"Hakluyt .... of course I do not, any more than I condone 3,000 Hamas missiles/rockets fired without ANY target in mind, so could have hit 3,000 schools, if not shot out of the sky."

But which didn't. Israel deliberately targeted places where the UN had told people their children would be safe. Are you prepared to say this is an atrocity?

Isitmebut · 05/08/2014 15:51

Claig ... you do like to take one quote out of context.

Anyone would expect 'negotiations', especially for a peace of sorts, but as by definition what Hamas wants is to increase the import of their heavily externally funded war effort - Israel will never cave in, as what is the point waiting for the big Hamas military/missile build up, and doing the whole thing again to 'take it out'?

Which country wants to sit and wait for thousands of rockets to reign down, and hope you shoot them all down.

goldvelvet · 05/08/2014 15:52

The UN seem to think it's Isreal