Part 5: Israeli-Palestinian conflict

[AndHarry]

New thread again.

Thread 1 - started when 3 Israeli boys were found murdered.

Thread 2 - in which we mainly discussed Operation Protective Edge.

Thread 3 - in which we continued to discuss Operation Protective Edge, the wider conflict and international involvement.

Thread 4 - in which Operation Protective Edge was examined further and we looked at the different views from inside Israel and the international community.

Another reminder of the Mumsnet Talk Guidelines.

'But thank you for your input.'

I don't think you should thank LondonGirl33 for the input, it looks like you should thank Leo McKinstry for most if it as a lot of it seems to come from one of his articles.

www.express.co.uk/comment/columnists/leo-mckinstry/495280/Leo-McKinstry-We-will-pay-a-terrible-price-for-supporting-Hamas

Londongirl it's a bit ironic you accusing posters of anti-Semitism (what, even the Jewish ones?) when your post is the biggest bunch of bile-filled, Islamphobic, racist crap I've read for oh, at least a day or so.

Londongirl Your post is all utter nonsense, but my favourite bit has to be that the Republicans just gave up cos the British Army and Loyalist Paramilitaries had won. Where to even begin with that one

i don't know whether to report that post for it's islamophobia or if some of these ones need to be left to stand so that people can see these people for what they are.

apparently it's be cool with the mass murder of children, with bombing hospitals, ambulances and schools OR side with the big bad bogeyman that is islam which is coming to destroy a liberal civil world near you. not that i see much sign of liberal civil world near me these days.

the thing that is standing up for civil liberal society is to condemn the bombing of schools and hospitals and the murder of children in their beds surely?

sorry random apostrophe day - not the biggest crime but hate it when i do it.

reality inversions everywhere! i wish i was minstrel - there's some great songs to be made from the crap we keep getting spewed at us.

I think posts like that need to be kept in this thread to show how miss in formed some people are.

Also it shows that the 'hate' isn't coming from pro palestinians. We don't condemn a nation and a religion for the actions of their government and the corrupt armed forces that represents them.

it does show the 'bogeyman' mentality that drives israeli fear and facilitates willing complicity in war crimes.

I'm off out now with the kids but please could someone post any links to images or footage of todays protest if they come across it online. Thanks so much.

I would leave it to stand HoneyBadger, on the basis that if people can see the flaws in an argument for themselves they're more likely to be persuaded against it than if you just tell them what the problems with it are. If that makes any sense at all, sorry, I'm having brain fail today

I have just got home from the Central London demo, have no idea how many people were there but it felt like a lot!

Great to hear guitar girl, was there any media presence at all? I know it passed the BBC.

We have just returned from the London protest. Tens of thousands - bbc was reporting 20,000, scriptonite.com said 150,000. As usual I expect the truth is somewhere in the middle, but it was HUGE! And very good natured too, lots of kids, ds loved it . Felt very proud to be a Londoner today.

Surprisingly little media presence that I could see. We didn't stay long at the rally in Hyde Park but I expect there were more cameras there. The BBC coverage is unsurprisingly scant so far...

Yes, it was covered by the BBC, there is a clip on their website. I was standing outside the BBC for a while as it was particularly crowded there, am not great with crowds(!) so I waited for a while for a little gap. Good atmosphere, I was wrapped in a Palestinian flag and bought some Palestinian loom bands for the DCs from some children who had made them. There was at least one Jewish organisation I saw wearing shirts reading 'not in our name'.

I received a reply from my MP (Conservative) today.

Back from the march, just hope it makes a difference. Was great to see how many people from all walks of life can understand the reality.

Hello Saadia, Lacuna, and Guitargirl - and everyone else - just back: the march was huge!!

So much for my looking out for people!

I think the road from the BBC to Oxford Circus was absolutely full by 11.30.

We were squashed in the middle somewhere, Hyde Park was busy by the time we arrived, and people were arriving for ages after us.

Saw some lovely sights: lots of families; mingling with the shoppers in a surreal way on Oxford Street; people leaning out of windows and waving flags in support.

Uplifting to see how much protest there is.

I've just been looking at the updated list of deaths and the average age of adults seems to be early 20's so many lives, with so much ahead of them.Makes me so mad.

On a posititve note glad to hear of how much has been raised in aid from the uk in just 24 hours. I donated and deferred a gift in way of a donation instead. Also that NHS teams are flying out to help the injured and the news that some children may be flown to England for treatment. Although it should have never got to this stage.

I have a feeling that the tide is turning, the media and politicians are speaking out and the inevitable is Israel will be brought to sanctions.

I wonder what will happen to Israel as a country. I feel so many citizens from countries all around the world will want to distance themselves and they will be ostracised by many. I sure as hell would never set foot there.

www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/now-diplomacy-has-failed-boycotting-israel-might-be-the-only-way-we-can-protect-the-people-of-gaza-9638191.html

At the end of this article I like idea of the stickers to notify shoppers of where the money from their products is going.

Sorry bit of a ramble.

Halfdrunk- interesting letter not really sure what I took a way from it. I would like to hear some more passion and definite's from these politicians.

Thecat sounds like a really positive day! And the pictures look like a great turn out. I love that people were leaning out of their windows in support.
And how many shoppers must you have reached today, what spectacle it must have been!

Halfdrunk- sorry overall the letter is positive and that you got a seemingly on generic reply. I just want these politicians to have a sense of outrage that they seem to be able to muster for other mundane crap. But not for mass human suffering.

Ugh, there's a witch hunt on the go here in South Africa: A young boy, Josh Broomberg, attends a Jewish day school in Joburg. He recently spoke out on facebook against the human rights abuses in Gaza and now there's a petition circulating (with a 1000 signatures already apparently ) insisting his title of Deputy Head Boy at the school be removed as he has "brought the school into disrepute". Poor kid.

Here's the article - see ewn.co.za/2014/08/09/CPT-protests-against-GazaIsrael-conflict.

I've written a letter of support for him to his headmaster Mr Gavin Budd. If anyone else wants to support him his headmaster is on [email protected].

This is what I wrote:

Dear Mr Budd

I write in connection with Josh Broomberg who I believe is Deputy Head Boy of your school.

I have just read this alarming article in Eye Witness News (see ewn.co.za/2014/08/09/CPT-protests-against-GazaIsrael-conflict) which claims a petition is being circulated to remove the title of Deputy Head Boy from this young man.

I am writing to express my outrage at this petition and my admiration for your Deputy Head Boy who is a great credit to your school.

[Bit of personal stuff about me]

Of course now an increasing number of Jewish people around the world do not support the recent actions of the Israeli government in Gaza and Josh Broomberg should be congratulated for his concern for his fellow human beings, not sanctioned. I think this petition is a nasty example of bullying.

I do sincerely hope you will stand by Josh Broomberg and his principles.

Yours sincerely
Wordsmithsforever

Glad the London demo went well!

hello thecatfromjapan, was a great atmosphere. Wished I could have stayed for all the speeches but dcs were tired. Will see if they are on youtube.

(Btw you have to scroll down a bit in that article to get to the one about Josh Broomberg.)

Word I will contact the head too that poor boy.

I have come across so much hatred these last month and all of it from other jews. It's almost as if loyalty to Israel represents acknowledgement of the horrors they experienced in Europe. Jewish friends have reacted to my position as if I have become a holocaust denier. Never before have I felt such a disconnect with these people.

I have to remember that I also have Jewish friends and family who agree with me 100%. Criticism of israel is just totally unacceptable to some people yet they cannot see the parallel with nazi germany and how difficult it became for Germans to criticise the regime.

I didn't get to the march but donated again and put some flowers up for the children of Gaza.