Part 5: Israeli-Palestinian conflict

[AndHarry]

New thread again.

Thread 1 - started when 3 Israeli boys were found murdered.

Thread 2 - in which we mainly discussed Operation Protective Edge.

Thread 3 - in which we continued to discuss Operation Protective Edge, the wider conflict and international involvement.

Thread 4 - in which Operation Protective Edge was examined further and we looked at the different views from inside Israel and the international community.

Another reminder of the Mumsnet Talk Guidelines.

that is the core i think - not decent or moral - this behaviour is NOT decent and is immoral. the wiggly justifications are irrelevant. these actions taken have been 'not decent or moral'.

I am so angry right now! I cannot sleep thinking of those dead children and now thinking of those people returning to the rubble or ransacked houses to find urine and faeces everywhere. The degradation is just too much!

I know, Yruapita.

Seen this in independent:

Meanwhile, Israel’s Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, defended the actions of Israeli forces in Gaza, blaming the heavy civilian casualties on Hamas. He said the intense bombardment was a necessary response to Hamas attacks, adding: “It was justified. It was proportionate.”

link

Yep, killing kids in homes, schools, hospitals was all justified and proportional. He is a psychopath!

Yrupita I don't know if this is the same problem you were having but the video you linked to seems to have been taken down because of copyright claims from an Israeli news agency I think might be the same one (haven't watched it as I need to go to bed so I can't say whether it's distressing).

I'd also like to remind people that just because a minority of IDF soldiers are doing terrible things (the cheering, graffiti etc) doesn't mean they all are - as has already been pointed out they are largely young conscripts, and not all may necessarily even agree with the war. The media will obviously choose to focus on the worst examples (of which there sadly seem to be many) but I'm not sure it's helpful to imply that they're all as bad as each other.

^^ shouldn't have said 'a minority of IDF soldiers' as I don't know whether it is - I meant 'some', sorry. And I don't think it is the same video actually, hopefully it's still interesting/informative though.

I agree that Hamas are pretty deplorable, but they were created in part by Israel and it's brutality.

Nutty has been talking of child sacrifice by the palestinians this week. How absolutely dare he. Bastard. Ironically it is his murder of the children which is now affecting people worldwide and increasing calls for the end of his racist brutal regime.

I have been to Israel and have family there and I can tell you israel has always whipped up its people into a frenzy by telling them they are unsafe, they could be killed en masse again, that their security justifies the subjugation of the palestinians. It's a dangerous form of mind control exerted to ensure the government can enslave and cage a nation.

Wikileaks this week leaked documents showing israel and the US certified palestine as a security threat and decided to keep it on the brink of a humanitarian crisis. I can't actually fathom what monsters would sanction this. Oh wait...

tigger I think the funny thing is that you don't understand that you are the warmonger, even while you believe that you are so reasonable. Because your narrative on the conflict is so one sided and blinkered that it is all framed around threat and defense and response.

The Palestinian Flag is to fly above the City Chambers in Glasgow today.

Israel are going to start Operation Resume this morning.

Yes, talks have failed, ceasefire is over. It is looking very bleak.

Thinking of the people of Gaza this morning.

Wish Egypt would open its borders.

Distressing news. I've read that air strikes are imminent. I'm struggling to understand this firm of ongoing collective punishment.

Obama has authorised limited air strikes in Iraq to help protect those Christians stuck on a mountain. To prevent a genocide the paper said.

Selective defending of peoples. And selective protests too. That's what irritates me as well. Why all the shouting and screaming about Gaza when there is loads of other awful things happening in the world.

We absolutely SHOULD shout and scream. But it seems only about certain episodes.

Meanwhile anti Semitism is on the rise in Europe.

Hamas are utter bastards. Spending millions on tunnels and not on their own people's well being. They are not interested in peace and never will be.

Israel are heavy handed thugs driven by panic and self righteousness.

backinthering- well done to Glasgow, stories like this are lovely to hear.

It's comforting that others are feeling the same way as me (down) on this thread but carrying on and keeping the momentum going. I am sure there is light at the end of this very dark and long tunnel for the Palestinians.

Disheartening that everyday that there is a new person trying to justify the actions of Israel. But the fact that they don't come back gives me some hope that we in someway helped to open their eyes. To allow them to have compassion for the citizens of Gaza who's only crime is to be a citizen of Gaza. this tweet sums it up

Sabrinnnnna I haven't seen the promise but I will look it up.

cross post- air strikes due to resume? How bleak I can't bear it politicians in power (world leaders) need to take a good look in the mirror and regain some humanity.

I would like to address those posters who are wondering 'why all the shouting and screaming about Gaza when there are loads of other awful things happening in the world?'.

I worry about Iraq and Syria and North Korea and about South American drug gangs and about the Ebola virus and about virtually every country and minority on the planet.

We are addressing Gaza here because a state which is supported by the US and the UK is attacking a civilian population in contravention of Intermational Law and for some reason is being allowed to get away with it. This is something that our governments, without putting their own military lives at risk, could stop. It is within our control.

All the other terrible problems should be addressed and those people in peril should be protected. It could be argued that the problems in Iraq stem from the US/UK involvement so they have a duty protect people. My understanding (which could be wrong) is that ISIS is funded by the Saudis and that in fact the growth of militant Islamists goes back to US interference.

I'm not surprised they're not se ding in ground troops as I think they weren't expected the losses they had. Nutty clearly doesn't want to lose too much support at home with more idf casualties on his hands.

I hadnt realised that I could only protest about one Genocide, I dont know about the rest of you but my empathy and concern can work multiple ways.

However, the protest on Sat is about Palestine so there I will be, if on Sunday there was a Protest about ISIS I would be there too, as I believe many many other people would be at both as well.

But people aren't protesting about more than one genocide are they?

You can protest against as many as you like. Who said you couldn't?

But it seems this one seems to be upsetting more people than others.

The point is there will be no rallies supporting other peoples under attack.

Why not?

Because the people attacking aren't supported by the US/UK government? That's a lame argument.

And George bloody moron Galloway is doing nothing but fan the flames of hatred too.

So are you suggesting that we must either protest at everything or at nothing?

I can protect about lots of different things. Including many different genocides.

This particular one maybe strikes chords because it is beinb carried out by the government of a country many of us have been to, most of us know natives of, which appears on the Eurovision Song Contest, and which frequently claims the moral high ground.
And which is blatantly and shamelessly bombing UN safe havens.

No, it's not a lame argument, winky.

As UK citizens we have very little power over the rest of the world - but one thing we can do is put pressure on our government to take some action - be it diplomatic/aid/sanctions and so on.

But here we have a situation where our government is supplying arms to Israel, who are bombing civilians - and really, they are quite deliberately targeting civilians.

We have a right to object to our government's implicit condoning of this. In fact, I'd say we have a duty to.

Sab, you can put the same pressure on our government to take action about any injustice.

No, I am not suggesting one protests about all or nothing. But I want to know why this particular injustice arouses such indignation.