Part 4: Israeli-Palestinian conflict

[AndHarry]

New thread again.

Thread 1 - started when 3 Israeli boys were found murdered.

Thread 2 - in which we mainly discussed Operation Protective Edge.

Thread 3 - in which we continued to discuss Operation Protective Edge, the wider conflict and international involvement.

Welcome to part 4, in which I hope it's not too much to ask that we stick to the MN Talk Guidelines

As many people have asked about Syria, I'm pleased to say that a new discussion on that subject has been started (by another poster here.

sergeantmajor

Have you been reading the Wikileaks documents? Israel don't give a shot who or what Hamas do, whether to bomb Israeli nurseries or whether they sit down with an olive branch. Hamas is irrelevant. It's the bogey man. It's an excuse.

If I sound rabid it's because I am. I am in a rage that a nation of people are being held on the brink of humanitarian crisis and people like you don't give a shit about it. You cannot or will not open your mind, your eyes or your heart to see what is being done to an entire nation of people.

The Israeli god may have said that Palestine belongs to them, but did he not say, the same god of the three major world religions, not said: thou shall not kill? Or is it too convenient to forgot that little instruction?

You think it's weird? YOU think it's weird that we think that Israel would do that? It's all over the news that Israel knew he was dead. Apparently killed in an air strike, under the Hannibal directive

We think it's mighty fucking weird that you will not or can not see for yourself how atrocious the IDF are acting. It's beyond words.

Yes, there's other bad shit happening in the world, that's no excuse to let this slide.

Yes, Jews suffered horribly in WWII, that's no reason to let them away with murder now.

Yes, people are very pissed with Israel, because our politicians are supporting the IDF and WE DO NOT.

We refuse to be complicit in this.

There is NO justification for genocide, despite the Times of Israel running a story that claimed there is.

That link about this war making people fat, WTAF? It's a fucking joke. This conflict is a joke to people in Israel, it's entertainment, it's an excuse to pig out and it's making people think some very strange ideas.

I don't think there is proof that Israel killed its own soldier. There are articles about the "Hannibal Directive" but that is not proof of what happened in this case. There is a battle going on because more than 50 Israeli soldiers have been killed when going in on the ground. It is not a risk free operation for the IDF and I am sure that many reservists and Israeli families do fear what may happen.

I don't trust Hamas and I don't know what their agenda is. But in the end it is Israel that is killing civilians who have nowhere to go. Hamas may well be collaborating by sending bombs and I do wonder why they are doing this when the fallout is so horrific. But either way, innocent Palestinians are being pummelled from both sides.

The Israeli response does not make sense on any level and it is abundantly clear that this is a genocide. What is there to debate? There is no justification for bombing hospitals and for cutting of the water supply. There is no justification for orphaning children.

I hadn't seen the article that Frontier linke to. If it is true, then it may have been the "Hannibal Directive".

If you think these things are up for debate then we are operating in different moral spheres.

The truth will out...
i100.independent.co.uk/article/four-candid-testimonies-from-israeli-soldiers-who-have-served-in-gaza--xkmZHI3Dfg

Oh Im so glad to hear others say they are not willing to debate with apologists of this Genocide, I am so tired of listening to the same old pathetic reasonings.

There are no excuse, no justifitication of what Israel is doing.

Once you start to believe that the ends justifies the means, you are in a moral freefall where anything is deemed acceptable.

AmI I'm sorry you are leaving the thread. You sound genuinely curious about the other side of the story. I'm interested in your viewpoint.

Sergeant - the 'kidnapping' is not a conspiracy theory. It was on every news channel and newspaper tgat israel claimed the soldier had been kidnapped by Hamas. Have you been living in a dark cave this past week? On the back of this so called kidnapping israel stated they would 'level' Gaza in the search for him which they proceeded to do. It was then confirmed by the idf the soldier was in fact dead pretty early on. Probably by their own fire as they did indeed level Rafa and everyone in and around it. Unfortunately aerial bombs are indiscriminate and don't spare idf soldiers.

The Wikileaks document today states the idf are told they can do absolutely anything they want. Including sniper shooting which they have done in abundance.

Israel are not even allowing palestinians to collect the bodies of their dead. They are a truly immoral at on par with the nazis. Even mainstream news agencies are struggling to defend them now. Al jazeera is reporting that Israel called a partial ceasefire but is still firing. Maybe the idf prefer to have children and families huddled in unwra buildings so they can kill many birds with one stone?

On the question of the Israeli belief of superiority, this is not a myth. While this belief may not be held by all Israelis, it exists. It has been very clearly stated. The quote in the following article by Reuven Barco, who writes for 'Israel Hayom' could not make it more clear.
www.middleeastmonitor.com/articles/middle-east/9024-the-qbrutal-arabq-and-the-qmuslim-terroristq-in-the-israeli-media

firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/08/04/cash-weapons-surveillance

Whistleblower Snowden explaining the very very close relationship of israel and America. It's disgusting that they're being enabled like this. It certainly explains the absolutely pathetic stance of Obama.

One Ambulance was assured by the IDF he was safe to go and pick up some injured people, he was fired on and killed on his way to them.

Hundreds and hundreds of personal stories like this.

Every interview I have seen has had the word terrorist or terror tunnel in it at least 50 times.

A terrorist= A person who uses terrorism in the pursuit of political aims:

I think the real terrorists are being exposed daily.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2715466/Israeli-official-calls-concentration-camps-Gaza-conquest-entire-Gaza-Strip-annihilation-fighting-forces-supporters.html

DM I know, so will warn anyone not wanting to not click on, this was flagged up to me by a friend, can anyone tell me if this is true.

Deputy Prime Minister of Israel calls for concentration camps and annihiliation for all fighting forces and their supporters (I presume he means the Palestinian people)

Deputy Speaker of the Israeli Knesset and member of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s ruling Likud Party, Moshe Feiglin, has called for the use of concentration camps for the “conquest of the entire Gaza Strip, and annihilation of all fighting forces and their supporters.”
Sharing a plan for the destruction of Gaza in a letter addressed to Netanyahu on his Facebook page on August 1, Feiglin wrote “What is required now is that we internalize the fact that Oslo is finished, that this is our country – our country exclusively, including Gaza.”
www.worldbulletin.net/world/141870/israeli-official-calls-for-concentration-camps-in-gaza

Israeli government lies to its own people, it has brainwashed them. It killed its own soldier. It is so greedy for Palestinian land and Palestinian natural resources that it has lost its mind. T he lies came in thick and fast with the kidnapping of 3 israeli teenagers and are continuing with them killing their own soldier.

mondoweiss.net/2014/08/deceptions-revealed-kidnapped.html

Seems the American Media are beginning to change their reporting, thanks to social media.

blogs.aljazeera.com/blog/middle-east/us-media-finally-acknowledges-gazans-plight

“The lesson of the Holocaust is not that Jews are special. It is not that Jews are unique. It is not that Jews are eternal victims. The lesson of the Holocaust is that when you have the capacity to halt genocide, and you do not, no matter who carries out that genocide or who it is directed against, you are culpable. And we are very culpable …”

is a very powerful clip. Well worth watching, one of the quotes above, by Christ Hedges, American political correspondent.

Ooops... Chris Hedges.

And also this by him. Another powerful piece.

It is pretty obvious what is going on. Isis is the thig to understand. Who created it, who funds it and why? And what is likely to happen due to Isis?

Isis will be used as the excuse to change the entire Middle East. We are already begnning to hear rhetoric from some leaders that Isis is like Hamas, and we know what Isis is like - this new force of barbaric butchers in their brand new Toyota MPVs, funded and created by someone for the pupose of attacking Shia and canging the entire Middle East.

Libya has been destroyed, Syria is being destroyed, Iraq is being destroyed and Isis has been funded and created to continue the destruction acroos the Middle East that serves the interests of Isis's funders. In the disaster that will ensue after all this needless, pointless destruction, the excuse will be found to drastically change the Middle East.

I wonder who will be the first world leader to actually speak out and say we do not support Israel's actions?