Part 4: Israeli-Palestinian conflict

[AndHarry]

New thread again.

Thread 1 - started when 3 Israeli boys were found murdered.

Thread 2 - in which we mainly discussed Operation Protective Edge.

Thread 3 - in which we continued to discuss Operation Protective Edge, the wider conflict and international involvement.

Welcome to part 4, in which I hope it's not too much to ask that we stick to the MN Talk Guidelines

As many people have asked about Syria, I'm pleased to say that a new discussion on that subject has been started (by another poster here.

Paul Mason's latest blog, about Palestine and it's potential, is a great read.

If that's true about Jeremy Bowen it is alarming.

David Cameron's words today are so weaselly they should be in The Wind In The Willows.

I dread to think what is going on in Rafah. Israel are clearly carving a passage there.

I think I'm at the point now of having given up all hope and all fight. I'm also really sick of the exhausting arguments with people who seem to briefly join mumsnet just in order to bleat Regevisms. It's game over for Palestine and all of us.

duvsha

Do you think Israel is being oppressed?

I'd love to hear how Israelis think they are being oppressed. (Not because I'm a sadist!) I mean, to hear experiences from the other side. A lot of Pro-Israelis on this thread complain that it's very hard to get their point across because we're all a bit rabidly Pro-Palestinian. I'm interested in hearing why Israelis think they are the victim here. How they are being oppressed and what they are defending themselves against. And I'm not looking for C&P propaganda, I mean real experiences.

I truly don't think any of the national papers in the Uk have a Pro-Palestine bias, and yet even so, the images that's have do paint a picture of relative calm and safety, and yes, people sunbathing at the beach, in Israel during this conflict. So, how 'terrorised' are the Israelis by this?

Ultimately, at the end of the day I think most people who are removed from the situation will clearly side with the victim. And I'm sorry, but there is nothing in this conflict that makes Israel the victim. Their past, the Holocaust, previous refugee status does not confer eternal victim status.

It's like the classic abused child becomes the abuser.

So many of the excusatory propaganda sounds so much like what you hear abusers say to the abused, and how abusers keep their victims quiet:
Look what you made me do to you
It's your fault, you drove me to it
No one will believe you
No one else wants you
You couldn't cope without me

Just look at the Relationships boards, it's full of this shit.

And I'm sorry, but that C&P list of products we couldn't possibly live without, and therefore we wouldn't be capable of boycotting Israel - is that really a valid reason to not boycott a country committed to maintaining a nation on the brink of humanitarian crisis (See previous link to Wikileaks cables)?

Classic bully and abuser tactics - you couldn't cope without me, so I'm going to continue to do what I want. Ner ner ner ner ner.

I must say, I find it very hard to imagine how decent people can align themselves with the Zionist viewpoint, approving of the IDF and complicit in this crisis. My conclusion is that you're either paid robots, or not a decent human being. Sorry.

By way of contrast to the food shortages in Gaza, the Times of Israel (the one that wanted genocide last week) now asks Israelis does this war make me look fat?

Dear god snowinberlin

I'm afraid duvsha lost a lot of credibility for me when she posted that list. Up until then I was carefully reading her side on all of this.

Then I read that Israel was basically responsibe for technology in computers (anti virus, firewalls, operating systems,) emails, mobile phones(4G, SMS, voicemail), printer ink, internet search engines, video on demand, e-books, electric cars, cancer treatment, insulin and basically all dental treatment and diseases, oh and cherry tomatoes and honey!

At that point, my interest in her posts vanished somewhat

Thank you halfdrunkcoffee and duvsha.

Does anyone know why the ceasefire excludes Rafa? What is going on there? There's been a blackout for a few days and no journos are allowed in. It's frightening but looks like another land grab.

There are also reports that Israel are bombing through the ceasefire but I don't know if this is true.

Why were israel spying on John Terry and his calls during ceasefire negotiations? They really are a despotic authoritarian regime.

snowinberlin WTAF seriously that is in such poor taste, such trivial drivel, it sickens me.

Duvsha turns out the people of Israel aren't spending years in shelters just getting fat binge eating.....

What shit that woman talks, it's enough to turn my stomach, unfortunately I also read this. She talks of her terror, no one else's. Very blinkered.

somewheresafe I have kept asking the same about Rafa. It looks very strategically placed.

Roussette, what is your objection to the list exactly? Quite possibly the ubiquity of Israeli products is a bit exaggerated, but afaik a lot of that stuff was at least partially developed in Israel or by Israelis, even if it is not actually all made in Israel today. That doesn't mean that boycotts and sanctions have no place, and people can't do much about stuff they already have, but boycotting Israel means more than just avoiding some food in Tesco.

sorry just checking in at this point. i've tried to read and catch up but it doesn't seem i've missed much other than people wasting their energy on another 'human being' who doesn't get that slaughtering women and children and other unarmed civilians is inhumane and outrageous and cannot be justified by any weasly twisting of words. another so called 'human being' that doesn't get that even trying to justify the slaughter of children just spells out how far from basic humanity they have strayed.

oh and yet another HA you can't boycott us because we make EVERYTHING and you'd DIE without our supreme superior technoogy/medicine etc. ya, whatever. watch and learn.

www.thisdayinwikileaks.org/2014/08/3-august-2014.html?m=1

More from Wikileaks including the fact that the idf used palestinians as human shields in last offensive, that the idf are given carte blanche to do whatever they want, and the US clearly thinks israel is ethnically cleansing.

Hardly any clean water available in Gaza now. Every day I think we'll the worst has happened. But it just keeps getting worse.

Regev on al jazeera now. Disgusting vile man.

I've finally had a response from Philip Hammond, but guess what ...

*IMPORTANT – PLEASE READ – FOREIGN SECRETARY’S BOX

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There is NO box on Friday.

Please note that ALL draft letters, submissions, briefings, minutes, etc, must be formatted as per the templates provided at

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Yeah, right, I'm going to get through on the phone! I take solace from knowing that at least they ARE feeling hounded on this issue. Keep the emails going through.

He's mentioning Iran now. Ffs. He's goading them.

He's saying idf didn't target the school. Trying to deflect deny and defame. Again. Speaks of collateral damage. Blaming Islamic jihad. School was not targeting. Deaths are being investigated.

Bastard. I'm fuming.

Regev: hamas, terrorists, human shields, Hamas, let's be clear it's hamas, terrorists, terrorists hamas, Iran.

The irony! Regev says hamas is brutalised the Gaza civilians. It is truly truly disgusting.

Level of condemnation is rising say al jazeera.

halfdrunkcoffee my objection to the list was the ridiculousness of it within this thread that's all. It looked like Israel was responsible for the computers we use, the phones we speak on, the food we eat, and the cures for diseases we may benefit from. That's all.

Israel is refusing to attend peace talks with the palestinians in Egypt. The palestinian groups have United to negotiate as a unified front, israel refusing to engage.

Israel preferring to continue bombing Gaza so that once this is over palestinians struggle for many years.

Haven't the Israelis been busy inventing stuff/doing lots of research considering that they have to spend all of their time hiding out in shelters??

Been lurking on here for the past few days and just wanted to add my voice to those uttely appalled and in despair about this

QnBoudi - i got the same response when i sent a letter to Philip Hammond via CAAT. CAAT said that the message WILL get through despite the automated response. Haven't had a reply yet though.

I shouldn't be surprised, really. An Israeli life is de facto more valuable than a Palestinian life (or should that be 25 lives?). Equally, an Israeli voice is more powerful than those (plural again) putting forward a pro-Palestinian view: www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/50413/university-failed-probe-anti-israel-talk
The idea of god given rights is all pervasive.