Part 4: Israeli-Palestinian conflict

[AndHarry]

New thread again.

Thread 1 - started when 3 Israeli boys were found murdered.

Thread 2 - in which we mainly discussed Operation Protective Edge.

Thread 3 - in which we continued to discuss Operation Protective Edge, the wider conflict and international involvement.

Welcome to part 4, in which I hope it's not too much to ask that we stick to the MN Talk Guidelines

As many people have asked about Syria, I'm pleased to say that a new discussion on that subject has been started (by another poster here.

duvsha. clearly your family is living a lovely life. my family is terrified and my friends who live outside of the gaza strip have fled since terrorists have started coming out of the ground like daisies!

What an absolute joke. When gaza is literally being razed to the ground before our eyes, yet Israelis are either lying on the beach, or setting up sofas on hill-tops to cheer the bombing of Gaza.

And:

I have a BA and and MBA and I pay more tax than you ever will.

Just makes you sound like a dick, as you have no idea how much tax we all pay.

Just received a link saying that Jeremy Bowen has been removed from the BBC's Gaza reporting after Israel complained that he had not seen evidence of Hamas using civilians as human shields.

Also glad we can get back to normal discussion. The Israeli default position, even of these threads, is to deflect to how evil Hamas is and to focus on other atrocities.

There is a void where any compassion and fellowship with other human beings should be.

I'm sick of hearing about the human shield aspect that Israel keep trotting out - this rather discounts it here

I really hope that isn't true, saadia. Jeremy Bowen's been out in the Middle East for years - he must be one of the most experienced correspondents there.

Catfromjapan - Of course I am aware of the anti Iraq marches but the sentiment was nowhere near as angry as I am seeing now.

Unfortunately, I fear that the majority of you will not understand this situation fully until it is no longer Israels problem and it's on your doorstep.

This is supposed to be a discussion on the Israeli Palestinian conflict but anyone who has a different opinion to the pro Palestinian majority just gets shouted down. It's a shame as this could have been an interesting discussion.

This guy would be a real risk if he was on our doorstep:

RIP Yousef Drabiah

And all those children and babies would be too. Best kill them all.

Ding a ling - so what are you saying, leave this thread as my opinions are different to yours?

Even the Daily Mail published an article yesterday saying that the BBC was biased against Israel.

Incidentally no one has explained an answer to my question re the Palestinians plight.

And to answer the last poster. Any loss of life is tragic, Palestinian or Israeli and I cry for them all.

That 5 year old shot by an Israeli sniper too - he needed taking out.

All those children sleeping in UN shelters and schools - clear danger to Israel. They needed taking out too.

Nothing justifies Israel's wholesale slaughter of innocent civilians. Nothing at all.

AmIdecisive - you ask, is it because it's Israel.

No, it's because of how Israel is behaving. They are using sophisticated attack jets and naval vessels to bomb densely packed areas and safe havens such as schools, apartment blocks, mosques and slums to attack a population that has no air defense, no air force, no navy, no artillery, no mechanised armour and no iron dome . That's why.

The seven hour ceasefire announced by Israel after an attack on a school has been broken almost immediately (that seven hour 'humanitarian window' does not include the areas such as Rafah by the way)

"AmIdecisive - you ask, is it because it's Israel."

No. It's because Israel is deliberately targeting children.

Ceasefire broken by Israel I should add. 15 people injured after Israel bombed a house this morning. Yet again they are 'looking into it'. How many times have we heard? How many times have we heard the results of their investigations?

How many times have we heard that, I meant.

'Of course I am aware of the anti Iraq marches but the sentiment was nowhere near as angry as I am seeing now.'

Because as far as I know, hospitals, UN schools and apartment blocks were not being targetted in Iraq by Western powers.

You keep mentioning Syria. But Syria is a civil war that has been implicitly backed by the West. It has even been encouraged by their allies. It has been going on for 3 years and no one has yet won because bilions of dollars are being poured in by Western ally regimes in an attempt to overthrow Assad. It is a war which would end overnight if the money funding it was turned off and the donors were told to stop, whereas what is happening in Gaza is not a war, it is a massacre where some of the most sophisticated weapons are being used to destroy civilian homes and entire apartment blocks which has resulted in civilians, children and babies being buried under rubble and entire families being wiped out.

Why it also affects us in Europe is that we all know that our leaders are responsible for not stopping it, for not speaking up strongly enough in the way that they all without exception spak up about Putin. We all know that our countries have a role and duty to help prevent the deaths of thousands of inncocent civilians and we are all ashamed at our brave leaders who remain almost silent when the world watches thousands of innocent people being slaughtered.

''is it because it's israel''

If our brave leaders were bombing hospitas, UN schools and apartment blocks dpn't you think we would all feel exactly the same as we feel when watching what is happeneing in Gaza. It is not "because it is Israel", it is because of humanity, hundreds of innocent people are dying and thousands are injured and our leaders watch on. It shames our countries that we are led by people like this.

Death toll reaches 1,822 this morning according to this report...

^Ten Palestinians were killed by Israeli strikes throughout the Gaza Strip early Monday, raising the Palestinian toll from the four-week conflict between Israel and Hamas to 1,822, Agence-France Presse reported.

A child was killed in the city of Rafah, south of Gaza in addition to five people in Jabalia in the north, three in the Gaza City neighborhoods Zeitun and Sheikh Radwan, and one in Nuseirat in central Gaza, Gaza emergency services spokesman Ashraf al-Qudra told AFP^

Where is Blair? Isn't he supposed to be someone that world leaders (if not the world public) respect?

It also raises disturbing questions about how our leaders value the lives of Palestinians. For a number of days we have had nearly 100 people killed and hundreds injured per day in actions that can be stopped and prevented. Contrast the difference in our leaders' reactions between that and the shooting down of the Malaysian airliner.

Blair's silence here is unfathomable and yet, at the same time, completely predictable. It's all about $$$$$.

Middle East Peace Envoy Tony Blair parties as Gaza burns

The 7 hour cease fire this morning was apparantely only for areas of Gaza that isnt involved with the military, whats that suppose to mean exactly?

This explains how Blair has been to Gaza twice in seven years, yet been to Jerusalem 119 times in the same period. Says it all.

wordsmithforever

halfdrunkcoffee and duvsha: That was a very sad article I agree - very interesting. Do either of you (or anyone else) know why he says he cannot take his children to day camps or to parks with their Jewish friends? (He says he lives in Jerusalem.) Is it not safe for Arabs or is it social pressure?

I think it is to do with dislike of what he has written in his columns (Gideon Levy has also had some threats). I don't think that this would apply to all of the many Arabs living in Israel (at least I hope not). He also wrote a popular TV comedy programme called Arab Labour/Arab Job, about an Israeli Arab who tried to blend in in Israel (there are some clips of it on YouTube).

Mimi- when I said England would not occupy another's land I meant in the context of this genocide. England, for example,, would never invade and occupy Wales and then cage them into a 25 mile strip of land and count calories. Only a most barbaric and ruthless regime would so this sanctioned by its people.

A clarification - settlers were removed in 2005 from Gaza but conditions worsened. The blockade and siege ensued. Israel controls the air land and see and all movement in and out of Gaza. It monitors the food intake and medical supplies going in and out of Gaza. Only this week a British Dr was detained for 2 weeks before being allowed into Palestine. Israel is a cruel vicious terrorist regime.

Another point to note for new apologists to the thread, we have all seen the media handbook in a previous thread. We are familiar with the excuses so they won't have much sway here: hamas, human shield, Hamas, self defence, rockets, Hamas, Syria, antisemitism, Hamas, terror tunnels, Hamas. We also know the standard responses to israels bombing of schools as depicted in the above photo which is trending on twitter.

A serious question for apologists, what do you think of your country's lies relating to the death of soldier who they killed with their fire? Are the lies and cover up acceptable to you?