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Part 4: Israeli-Palestinian conflict

956 replies

AndHarry · 31/07/2014 11:46

New thread again.

Thread 1 - started when 3 Israeli boys were found murdered.

Thread 2 - in which we mainly discussed Operation Protective Edge.

Thread 3 - in which we continued to discuss Operation Protective Edge, the wider conflict and international involvement.

Welcome to part 4, in which I hope it's not too much to ask that we stick to the MN Talk Guidelines Wink

As many people have asked about Syria, I'm pleased to say that a new discussion on that subject has been started (by another poster here.

OP posts:
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5
babbas · 04/08/2014 00:28

Runes - Egypt managed to block and flood tunnels without killing a single child. Bravo Egypt.

Tunnels were also used in the warsaw ghetto by our ancestors who were desperate for freedom. Weren't called terror tunnels then, that term terror is reserved for Arabs only.

runes · 04/08/2014 00:28

AmI What would we do without Israel and their ingenious inventions. Best just let them carry on then eh. What's a bit of genocide between friends? It's not like there's any other countries capable of producing computers.

QnBoudi · 04/08/2014 00:28

Duvsha this is my final comment because you are not actually answering questions, but trotting out the same old same old.

Debris? Where? Miles of rubble with kids toys littered among the blood stains? Oh no, that was Rafah or Beit Lahiya or several other sections of Gaza. You might not be lying that your family are sitting in a shelter (as opposed to squashed in hundreds to a room in a UN shelter just about to take a hit). Your family may even know someone who spoke to someone who heard that a rocket might have hit somewhere perhaps close by roundabouts, mhm, and seemingly not too long ago. But that's not actually proof or evidence. What about the second part of the question - why not exploit the media opportunity of making us aware of the damage done? If it's equivalent, you'll be doing the world a favour by showing us the truth. But. Seems there isn't any proof...

And what does proportionality have to do with 'would have this' and 'would have that'? Proportionality is a straight mathematical equation. Israel's 'self defensive offensive' has never been a spontaneous reaction (i.e. carried out reflexively in response to the fear of the moment) but carefully planned and strategically delivered, so much so that the IDF have even had time to take the measure of printing leaflets, and sending messages. Incidentally, in English law whether an action in self defence uses 'excessive' force cannot be judged by the defendant himself! Which takes us right back to needing the proof for the external parties to judge this.

SmellyFartado · 04/08/2014 00:29

'This is the problem with ....people who support any side without listening to the other. this makes you an extremist like everyone else. shame on you.'

Are you including yourself within your definition, duvsha ?

duvsha · 04/08/2014 00:30

Good night people. May peace be on all of you. Especially those who called me a plonker.

runes · 04/08/2014 00:30

babbas Well done on the tunnel front Egypt. Maybe they could start producing a computers and that for us boycotters.

justasecond · 04/08/2014 00:35

Yes they will have a ready made market for everyone wanting a cruelty free computer.

dingalong · 04/08/2014 00:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

QnBoudi · 04/08/2014 00:45

Phew. Perhaps we can get back to a bit of reasonableness now! Has anyone seen this petition to govt? Need 100,000 signatures (so far got over 60,000) signme.org.uk/988

QnBoudi · 04/08/2014 00:46

Phew - perhaps we can get back to normality now!

If you haven't signed this govt petition, please take a look. Apparently needs 100,000 (so far got over 60,000.
signme.org.uk/988

mimishimmi · 04/08/2014 00:49

somewheresafe

England would never occupy another land. We have been under attack in the past. And we did not commit war crimes or murder children

You cannot be serious.

AmIIndecisive · 04/08/2014 00:55

Between 133,000 and 147,000 Civilians were killed in Iraq! That is women and children too.

Where was this level of uproar? Please can someone explain, I am not trying to inflame an argument I genuinely want to understand.

runes · 04/08/2014 01:03

Iraq was a disgrace too. For my part I'll admit I just didn't really know what was going on. We're all too aware now of the ridiculous bias of the bbc, and social media wasn't around to inform and give people a platform to air their views like it does today. I didn't know either about Operation Cast Lead or I would have been signing petitions and boycotting then too.

AmIIndecisive · 04/08/2014 01:07

But don't you think in some ways, social media is worse, it has shown it can be manipulated so why wouldn't it be used as a tool of the terrorists?

And what about Syria? Surely people should be up in arms about that too?

Again not being inflammatory, am not an Israeli or Jewish but can definitely sense that in Europe, people are much more angry about this than about other terrible situations going on in the world. Is it because it's Israel?

dingalong · 04/08/2014 01:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

runes · 04/08/2014 01:17

AmI Just checked wiki, between 750000 and 2,000
,000 people protested against the Iraq war in London alone.

runes · 04/08/2014 01:22

AmI As opposed to being manipulated by the mainstream media?? This isn't about anti semitism it's about the horrific treatment of the Palestinian people. It needs to stop.

AmIIndecisive · 04/08/2014 01:23

Ok if you'd rather not get sidelined about previous wars though I really do think the difference in reaction is important, then let me ask a different question and again I am really trying to seek out answers as to why people are so angry with Israel.

Suddenly there is mass international concern for the Palestinians, I have been horrified by what has happened to the Palestinians and how they have been mistreated by Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon, Kuwait, Libya, Iraq, Qatar and Syria (over 2000 killed) but I have never seen international support for the Palestinians on this level before.

They didn't seem to be on anyone's radar before so again I ask, is this because it's Israel?

AmIIndecisive · 04/08/2014 01:31

My eyes are closing so I am logging off now.

Yruapita · 04/08/2014 01:31

People are angry because of the inequality and injustice of the situation on a massive scale. A situation that has been allowed to remain for around six decades.

You have a country that breaks international law, that occupies someone else's land, that makes life unbearable for them, that goes in every few years to ethnically cleanse them, that talks about peace theoretically but delivers nothing, that bombs newborn babies and children, that gets re-supplied with more weapons by the West to continue its onslaught. Thankfully, people are waking up to the sheer barbarity of it all and we are now trying to hold our government to account.

thecatfromjapan · 04/08/2014 01:33

This thread is not about Iraq. It is about raising awareness about the shocking an deplorable failure of our government(s) to sanction Israel for their despicable acts of atrocity in Gaza.

But I think you must have been sleeping, like a little mythical creature in a fairy tale, AmIIndecisive, for the past few years. Because you seem bizarrely unaware of what is a part of the cultural wall-paper in the UK.

Only someone who was a. very young at the time b. has the memory of a mnemonically-challenged goldfish c. was not resident in the UK, or perhaps all three, could miss the fact that there was a huge outcry in the UK about the Iraq war.

Further: only those either a. not resident in the UK (and not arsed to do any research) b. asleep could fail to have noticed that the condemnation of the Iraq war continues to be huge over here.

It's not even a non-mainstream position to condemn the Iraq War.

It is received wisdom that the historical reputation of Tony Blair was irrevocably damaged by his role in the war.

It is received wisdom that it damaged Labour at the last election.

It is received wisdom that it continues to damage Labour electorally.

It caused a major row between the government of the day and our Secret Services.

How did you many to miss all that? And continue to miss it, my mn friend?

But.

This thread is not about Iraq, though. It is about questioning the absolutely abhorrent failure of government(s) - and our government in particular - to adequately sanction Israel.

thecatfromjapan · 04/08/2014 01:51

Oops. This is the thread for raising awareness. Grin

QnBoudi have signed.

Has anyone else noticed that the Israeli discourse seems to be openly moving to an acknowledgement that they are going to remain in the "buffer zone", ie. land-grab again? I haven't watched so much television over the past few days (following social media instead), and this seems a new move - openly acknowledging what we have been saying will happen.

wordsmithsforever · 04/08/2014 06:59
Backinthering · 04/08/2014 07:50

duvsha, your government has lied to you. This atttack on Gaza is not to make you safer. It's made you less safe, and made the world hate your country.
You are being lead by war criminals.