Part 4: Israeli-Palestinian conflict

[AndHarry]

New thread again.

Thread 1 - started when 3 Israeli boys were found murdered.

Thread 2 - in which we mainly discussed Operation Protective Edge.

Thread 3 - in which we continued to discuss Operation Protective Edge, the wider conflict and international involvement.

Welcome to part 4, in which I hope it's not too much to ask that we stick to the MN Talk Guidelines

As many people have asked about Syria, I'm pleased to say that a new discussion on that subject has been started (by another poster here.

Snow in Berlin
I do not disagree with the idea that Israel needs to return to 1967 borders. But your assumption is wrong. Hamas has a problem with that. They don't want Israel to exist period.

duvsha No one said it was founded illegally just off the back of a terrorist campaign which I can only presume causes you much anguish and shame given your stance on terrorist campaigns. The subsequent illegal settlements in the West Bank and Gaza Strip are what were being referred to but I think you know that anyway. As others have said if you read the full thread you'll find we're all pretty clued up by now and your Israeli propaganda will not wash here.

duvsha take a reality pill

The Israel hatred on twitter and fb is massive.

Israel has become a victim of its own success (in murder and genocide) the tide is turning. Even moderate members of my own family are appalled and ashamed. Finally.

The Israel hatred on twitter and fb is massive.

Israel has become a victim of its own success (in murder and genocide) the tide is turning. Even moderate members of my own family are appalled and ashamed. Finally.

Duvsha- so you would be happy to live the life of a palestinian?

Goldvelvet the Arabs rejected the UN partition plan and neighbouring countries attacked in 1948, hence the War of Independence, which resulted in Israel getting much more land than it would have got had the partition plan been accepted. Then it occupied the West Bank and Gaza after the Six Day War in 1967 and continues the occupation to this day.

Duvsha, I know it is easy for those of us not under rocket fire to talk about what we would do, but I really don't think that military action by Israel is the way to go. The civilian death toll is horrific and the infrastructure of Gaza destroyed, which will no doubt foster a great deal of hatred towards Israel. I have set out my arguments earlier in this thread and its predecessors, but basically where did Operation Cast Lead get Israel but doing the same thing five years later? There needs to be a long-term political settlement and the blockade of Gaza needs to ended (I agree with your demands of Hamas as well).

Palestinians have equal rights to Jews in Israel.

Not according to Amnesty International

Interestingly, that the Times of Israel newspaper which this week called for the "permissible genocide" of the Gazans, has also called for the complete removal of voting rights from all gentile Israeli citizens

Palestinians have equal rights to Jews in Israel.

Really? I didn't realise israelis were also on a restricted calorie intake of 1200 calories per day (if they're lucky).

Thank you halfdrunkcoffee

I am quite interested in the issue of Israeli Arabs - it is a shame that the poster called "IsraeliArab" (haha) could not enlighten me further. I believe that in theory they have equal rights to Jewish citizens; in fact they have in some ways a better deal than Palestinians in Lebanon, who after 66 years are still classed as foreigners and now allowed to work in various professions such as medicine. However, I believe they face a great deal of prejudice and racism, and I've also read that some jobs are reserved for army veterans, which Arabs other than the Bedouin and Druze don't usually do.

Or what snowinberlin said...

I fear you all just wanting to hear your own voices so this is not a discussion. If it was a discussion you would actually be interested in hearing the other side.

I can only pray that non of you ever live through war (I have, through several) and never have your family members or friends killed (I have. A few).

Most importantly, I hope when all of this is over you won't go back to your boring lives and forget about all the people who have been hurt, on both sides, and only remember them again in a few years when it all kicks off again.

Sabrinnnnnnnna - Palestinian citizens of Israel (Israeli Arabs) in theory have equal rights to Jews. Those in the West Bank and Gaza certainly don't.

Halfdrunk
There is an equal opportunity law in Israel so they cannot be discriminated against, like women or old people...

Duvsha I'm asking you questions because I am genuinely interested in hearing from the voice of someone living it from the other side. Even though I do not agree with your views.

One more question if your child married a Palestinian and wanted to live in Gaza would you support them?

Again, the Palestinians living within Israel borders are Israelis and therefore hold equal rights. The Palestinians living in the West Bank are under Israeli occupation but governed by the Palestinian Authority. The Palestinians in Gaza are living under the democratically elected (but never re-elected as there have never been more elections) Hamas. Israel left Gaza in 2005. (Sorry I have to repeat myself but it's not registering).

I've heard differently, halfdrunk (maybe in theory they do, but not in practice) - but I'm with you that those in Gaza/WB certainly don't. Least of all now.

It was, however, the palestinians in Gaza I was referring to.

Why then are palestinians protesting in the west bank and israel being killed by the idf and settlers?

My experience is that palestinians are treated terribly in Israel. The laws are there but they are not adhered to. There are hundreds of palestinians including children in israels prisons. No trial or charge.

Gold velvet.
I would support my child's decision to marry whomever they like. You can't control love.

I would not recommend they live in Gaza simply because they are jewish and they will most likely be killed for it but otherwise - I wish them the best of luck!

Sayed Kashua, an Arab Israeli who has written novels in Hebrew, explains in this article why he felt he had to leave Israel.

Somewhere safe
Those are not israeli Arabs . They are Palestinians from the West Bank. That is occupied territory. And yes, that is not right. I don't believe in the occupation of the West Bank. I believe in working out a peace solution with the Palestinian Authority. But the West Bank is not Gaza. Israel does not occupy Gaza.

But surely palestinians are human and should be treated as equal wherever they live. They should be free whether they live in Gaza or israel. Settlers have killed many palestinians over the years. Why Is this allowed in Gaza but illegal across the border in Israel?

Duvsha do you know if Jewish and Arab children ever get to meet each other? Or do they tend to go to separate schools and live in different areas? Is Arabic generally not taught in schools in Israel?

So say they weren't instantly killed upon setting foot in Gaza for being Jewish (I personally believe that it's all propaganda, the signs and warnings saying keep out you are in danger on the jewish side to keep you separated) Do you think they would have a good quality of life in Gaza?