Part 4: Israeli-Palestinian conflict

[AndHarry]

New thread again.

Thread 1 - started when 3 Israeli boys were found murdered.

Thread 2 - in which we mainly discussed Operation Protective Edge.

Thread 3 - in which we continued to discuss Operation Protective Edge, the wider conflict and international involvement.

Welcome to part 4, in which I hope it's not too much to ask that we stick to the MN Talk Guidelines

As many people have asked about Syria, I'm pleased to say that a new discussion on that subject has been started (by another poster here.

it's definitely brought it home to me fully that traditional means of influencing leaders (re: letters, demonstrations, marches etc) have been declawed to total ineffectiveness in the UK now and that with it we've become softer more pathetic (sorry but we are) citizens than maybe we'd have been 30 years ago.

we're more likely to moan about teachers striking for our kids education because we're too spineless to call our employers and tell them we can't work than we are to take part in a strike against thousands of people being slaughtered.

more worried that we might get fined for cancelling our tv licences or taking our children on holiday than we are outraged at the bbc's propaganda and our governments complicity in genocide.

if we become much more domesticated....

no doubt - and they're happily gonna frack this island too and fuck anyone whose land it is or who doesn't want to see their country destroyed for a bit of gas.

presumably this is how people get (quote, unquote) radicalised. imagine how radical you'd end up if you were herded into an open air prison, kept on 1200 calories per day and periodically bombed, shot and slaughtered? yes, one might become a (quote, unquote) terrorist.

sorry we need to clear the air about 'radicalisation'. The Palestinians/arabs do not bear any anatagonism towards the West, Western Values, never did and never will. Their hatred is reserved solely for 1. Zionism 2. The arab despots who have let them down. This whole idea about breeding terrorists is another red herring.

And the energy situation also explains the deafening silence from the otheraArab states. Couldn't get my head round that earlier. Thought they were too preoccupied with Ramadan and eid. Clever timing from Israel in so many respects.

I'm off to buy a load of ribbon now - black, white, red and green - to put up on lampposts in town with labals remembering named victims. It won't help them but I'll help me and perhaps keep others feeling a little saner.

Sherazade although the Palestinians themselves aren't radicalised, their plight and the western blindness and support for it is often used to radicalise.
Now of course, there are so many other 'foreign policy' examples ie atrocities in muslim countries by US, UK and other European countries to use as well.

www.richardsilverstein.com/2014/08/02/idf-censor-tells-ny-times-it-cannot-report-it-killed-2nd-lt-hadar-goldin/

The idf censored press to ensure details of the soldiers death were not released. When will Israelis wake up. They think they live in a democracy? I beg to differ. The irony government is using propoganda and brainwashing like hitler did in Germany.

Qnboudi I think that's a great idea. I might do the same.

Lovely idea qnboudi

So the idf were on every major news channel declaring they would level Gaza in the search for the 'kidnapped' soldier. Nutty was supposed to enter into peace talks but escalated the violence on the back of this lie.

Haaretz is reporting that he conned everyone including the soldiers parents.

Why aren't the fucking news agencies reporting on this? Interview the idf now? Interview the soldiers family now? Poor hamas. I never thought I'd utter those words but it's becoming clear how fabricated and controlled every aspect of this genocide is.

Where are the apologists who were calling the kidnap barbaric?

the Telegraph is indeed reporting that the 'missing' solider was killed 'in battle'. So our mainstream media ARE reporting it.

'In battle' presumably means shot by his own side, as it's not hand to hand combat between front lines. (Not that Palestine has an army anyway.)

also reporting that Israel is deliberately destroying factories. I imagine that is to leave Palestinians without jobs, without food, without hope.

And the Telegraph story is from yesterday.

"also reporting that Israel is deliberately destroying factories. I imagine that is to leave Palestinians without jobs, without food, without hope."

Another to add to the list of destruction of the infrastructure. Souless. Be the goats chickens and donkeys next.

I agree BTW with the poster that said Israel authorities have gone past the point of no return. Nutty has said even if all tunnels destroyed they will continue as they see fit. The cruelty arrogance and hubris will get him in the end.

Live by the sword, die by the sword they say.Applicable to all.

And I bet the mother of that soldier killed will be one of the first fuming at them for their blatant lie.

Cant get online much today but just wanted to finish with a general comment about the erosion of the powers that be in recent years. The church, the banks, the governments, police, the media, all have been involved in highly damaging scandals. Seems nemesis is floating around the world doing her job and no one is exempt. A good thing.It will take more time for corruption greed stupidity and violence and general abuse of power to be destroyed but it will happen IMO.

I will also buy the palestinian ribbons and stick them around here in. Emory of the children

Emory??? In memory of!

mobile.twitter.com/search/gallery?q=%23Amsterdam&s=hash&idx=2&tid=495922719519547392

mobile.twitter.com/tparsi/status/495898531983806465/photos

Just a couple of pics of protests in Amsterdam and Spain.....will they register in various leaders brains/consciences or not?

Add message | Report | Message poster claig Sun 03-Aug-14 11:49:49 'The swell of anger that is building up publicly is reassuring but what will it lead to?'It will evetually shame some of the puppets to break loose and cut the strings that control them. When millions of people tweet and facebook etc, then they can't maintain their media facade of lies and spin. In the end one politician will be brave enough to say enough is enough and then change will come

^^ what a pity this isn't looking like being Obama. Am so bitterly disappointed in the man given his statements on the crisis

Sorry the first link seems to be superceded by another picture but still poignant

Smelly, we all know the ballless brazen lying leaders, lets see who does say finito la musica to the insanity

The Daily Mail online is now showing graphic photos of the bloodshed in Gaza. There definitely seems to be a change in reporting. This can't come soon enough

I have a reply from my MP:

Thank you for contacting me over the present conflict in Gaza.

No right minded person can fail to be angered by the scenes of destruction there over the past month. Allow me to be clear about my strongly held view:

The Israeli incursion into Gaza is both wrong and unjustifiable.

The firing of rockets into Israel by Gaza based militants cannot be justified. But in their most recent assessment of this present conflict, the UN estimate that between 65% and 80% of Palestinians injured or killed in Gaza have been civilians.

Indeed, one in four is a child.

As Ed Miliband has rightly said, the Prime Minister is wrong not to have opposed Israel’s incursion into Gaza. His silence on the killing of hundreds of innocent Palestinian civilians caused by Israel’s military action will be inexplicable to people across the UK and internationally.

That is why, when this conflict first reawakened into violence, I wrote to both the Prime Minister and Foreign Secretary to urge them in the strongest of terms to push for immediate ceasefire and to condemn the disproportionate action by Israel.

That is why I challenged the Prime Minister directly about the legality of Israeli action in the House of Commons. And it's why I met with hundreds of constituents to hear their concerns directly at the Luton Council of Mosques’ meeting on 16 July.

Through my work as Shadow International Development Minister, with responsibility for the region, I work to hold our government to account for their actions in this conflict. Indeed I had hoped to travel to the region last month, but this trip has had to be delayed until later in the year due to the degrading security situation.

Finally, I would like to keep you updated with the responses I receive from Philip Hammond and David Cameron, and also any other developments in the coming days.

Gavin Shuker MP
Labour MP for Luton

Today i used my buycott app and realised i have to change the way i shop. That is a small thing that i can do.

Gaza is a graveyard of the innocent, slaughtered in cold blood. How do we explain to the survivors that we watched on in horror and were helpless. I used to think that there was nothing worse in the world than Ariel Sharon. Now I realise that Israelis keep voting in monsters and we in the UK keep voting in cowards.

thank you for posting the reply andHarry. Who or what can make the prime minister speak for the people and not for capitalism?

Has anyone seen this?
Apologies if this has already been posted but it appears that the deputy speaker of the Knesset wants the whole Gaza area ethnically cleansed.