Part 4: Israeli-Palestinian conflict

[AndHarry]

New thread again.

Thread 1 - started when 3 Israeli boys were found murdered.

Thread 2 - in which we mainly discussed Operation Protective Edge.

Thread 3 - in which we continued to discuss Operation Protective Edge, the wider conflict and international involvement.

Welcome to part 4, in which I hope it's not too much to ask that we stick to the MN Talk Guidelines

As many people have asked about Syria, I'm pleased to say that a new discussion on that subject has been started (by another poster here.

Hitchens says "It will be less dangerous if we refuse to trust our leaders."

That is already happening all across the world. People have lost faith, and when enough lose faith and no longer believe in the spinan the meda lies, then the handful of decision makers will have to change their policies because no one will believe them anymore and everyone will say the Emperor Has No Clothes.

This genocide has certainly highlighted the character flaw and spinelessness of our world leaders. What an impotent untrustworthy immoral bunch of bastards they are. And well done to all those south American countries who expelled their israeli ambassadors.

It's certainly been an eye opening few weeks for me. Thank you israel for making me realise what a rotting infected diseased corpse you are.

I know, you're right, it's just the helplessness of standing by that upsets me. I get so angry but when our leaders won't listen or take action, what can you do? The swell of anger that is building up publicly is reassuring but what will it lead to?

'The swell of anger that is building up publicly is reassuring but what will it lead to?'

It will evetually shame some of the puppets to break loose and cut the strings that control them. When millions of people tweet and facebook etc, then they can't maintain their media facade of lies and spin. In the end one politician will be brave enough to say enough is enough and then change will come.

What these events have reallly done is to open the eyes of people around the world about their own leaders, not Netanyahu.

That's the issue for me. Israel will stop the genocide soon. It has destroyed Gaza. There is nothing left. Gazans have nowhere to live and israel are hoping they will all quietly relocate to neighbouring Arab countries. Very convenient.

The issue for me is that we must keep the momentum going. When the genocide ends, when Gazans begin to try and rebuild their lives and homes, when the world's press retreats to another disaster zone it is up to us to ensure the fight for apartheid to end continues.

Boycott,; divest, sanctions. This has to continue.

Dr gilbert returned home to Norway this week and said this is not israel v hamas. This is a genocide of the people who are fighting occupying forces. Hamas is a bogeyman created by Israel. Hamas is iineffective. If they had any power or influence there would be more casualties on the israeli side.

Yes, I always knew bibi was a fucking lunatic. But now I know Obama Cameron clear militant et al are cut from the same cloth. Very eye opening.

Clegg miliband that should read.

It seems there is a way around a US veto of any ICC investigation into war crimes, now that the UN General Assembly has accorded Palestine the state of statehood here. Both sides would be investigated.

I did actually get a surprisingly full and reasonably frank response back from my MP after i wrote to him (though am still waiting for anything from Messrs Hammond and Cameron). I will write again calling for Britain to encourage and support Mahmoud Abbas in calling for an ICC investigation - we are apparently doing the exact opposite at the moment.

I'm not posting much but am reading here and elsewhere, boycotting and writing. It's not enough though is it?

Miliband to militant - oh the irony of autocorrect!

I'm now sending an email a day to my mp (louise ellman, pah) and Cameron. Since we've got a new definition of 'disproportionate' (or we can't use it cos its 'emotive'), figure that's OK. Just hope they're feeling as hounded as I feel angry.

Thank god for this thread, otherwise I would feel as though I was going mad.
I feel I am watching on a side of the road, as a load of massive bullies beat a child to a pulp, while everyone around me ignores it. That's how I feel about our leaders.
The more I think about it, I've lost complete faith in our leaders to keep us safe. If Israel can flout international law and can commit mass murder all in plain sight without recrimination and even complicity from our countries, then what's to stop it looking at other places to 'defend' against. What if it takes issue with us next. Highly unlikely I know. But if it does, will we have Obama on tele, saying how unfortunate it is that British children are lying screaming in agony with no medical aid in over run hospitals, buts that's war for you folks.
I'm boycotting, writing to our MP's, no response as yet. Thankfully, due to my outrage on facebook, posting links to petitions, boycott info etc, I've had loads of replies back, even from unlikely sources I would have thought would not have been interested. I haven't had one negative comment supporting Israel's actions yet, which demonstrate to me how many people are on the same page with this, and how much distance there is between our government and its people.
Please if anyone knows of anything else I can do please message me.

So everyone is waking up to fact that this was all about the gas reserves. I wonder how much gas the UK has been promised?

Sky news reporting that Israel is still working on blocking tunnels in Gaza. What a disgrace. Did israel not think to plug the tunnels or flood them like Egypt did? Oh no, of course it didn't. Because this was never ever about tunnels, Hamas, 3 murdered teens or a captured soldier. It was always about the gas reserves. Please share the links posted here so that awareness is spread. www.theguardian.com/environment/earth-insight/2014/jul/09/israel-war-gaza-palestine-natural-gas-energy-crisis

link of possible aid plan - can't tear myself away from Twitter even though it's breaking my heart, and found this link. Not sure of other details re it yet but will have a look (not au fait with Twitter so may be a while!)

Thanks for sharing wikileaks link. Mind boggling.

So.

The Iron Dome doesn't do anything. They just pretend that Hamas are firing rockets, when really the IDF are falsely firing interception missiles at nothing. So, the world thinks that the Iron Dome is protecting Israel and this justifies the IDF attacking, sorry, defending itself.

Have I got that right?

Hamas is a complete red herring in this.

The premise is not that Hamas are a terrorist organisation, the basic premise is that Palestine is in the way.

Basically?

Posted the gas link onto my FB page.

It's getting worse and worse

it doesn't need to take issue with us - i know it's a horrible realisation but it is our leaders we need to worry about not some foreign country coming to get us. that's not how it is anymore. it's the facism of power elites who are international anyway that we need concern ourselves with and the horrendous gradual waking up to the fact that our leaders serve those power elites.

our leaders are OK with hundreds of children being slaughtered in hospitals and schools, they are ok with concentration camps, illegal occupations, the use of heavy weaponry in civilian areas etc. THAT's what you need to worry about - if they're ok with that what do you think they'd be ok with being done to the little people in their own country if it came to it? i know it's sounds loony when it's new but they are announcing to you that they care not a flying fuck about civilian lives, about children and women or justice or ethics. they are serving different masters and they'd just as happily serve you or i up on a plate to them as they would palestinians.

i've said it before but ANYONE who is ok with the illegal slaughter of civilians should NOT be in a position of power over civilians ANYWHERE. we have people who are ok with that in power here. when all this disappears in the news about palestine and the eradication of a people we will still be being ruled by people who put whatever strings are upon them ahead of civilian life, morality, justice and international law.

don't fear israel coming to get us - the same people who pull the strings in israel essentially pull them here.

Links reporting about the gas reserves are all over fb and Twitter.

What an absolute disgrace. Israel have gone to the point of no return. When will Israelis wake up and take responsibility for what is happening in their name! I believe the biggest changes will come when Israelis themselves respond and lead the way.

10 children have been killed this morning at the UN school whilst we were having a Sunday morning coffee.

I'm very grateful for this thread, and the time and effort people are putting into share info and vent their frustration.

I have faith that this will be stopped. Maybe not today or tomorrow, but this WILL not continue. The tides are changing.

Israel, your time has come. And you've done it to yourself.

sorry that was in response to junebugs post - missed the other posts in between by not reloading

how would it stop FP? and when it stops what will be left? they've done what they set out to do already now they'll just dance on the grave a bit and make sure it doesn't look like they're bowing down to public opinion.

but essentially even if they stopped tomorrow they've probably left it unfit for habitation and toxic as hell with weapons debris, no water, no sewage treatments, etc etc.

i think we need to potentially face the fact that unless we have a political system that represents US and does what we want we cannot, and never will, have any chance of influencing anything beyond our own shores.

i'm beginning to feel that our first priority really has to be dealing with the corruption and sold out'ness of our nation first because otherwise ??? we could demonstrate till the cows come home if they don't serve us they won't care. they'll just speed up the legislation for being able to water cannon us and throw a few more laws in about how people gathering in one place can be arrested and online petitions need to be banned and how we all need monitoring more and can be arrested without charge if needs be. honestly at this rate posting on a thread like this in 50yrs time will be considered an act of terrorism.

if we don't own our own political system then we have zero chance of effecting anything beyond it.

i really recommend people reflect on what it means to say, 'we are ALL palestinian'.

our leaders are OK with murdering civilians, bombing schools full of children and hospitals full of the injured and sick. they cannot tell you anymore clearly that we are expendible if needs be.

There's not just gas off Gaza. Apparently there's oil too. No doubt We re going to benefit from this too through British Gas.
www.globalresearch.ca/war-and-natural-gas-the-israeli-invasion-and-gaza-s-offshore-gas-fields/11680