Part 4: Israeli-Palestinian conflict

[AndHarry]

New thread again.

Thread 1 - started when 3 Israeli boys were found murdered.

Thread 2 - in which we mainly discussed Operation Protective Edge.

Thread 3 - in which we continued to discuss Operation Protective Edge, the wider conflict and international involvement.

Welcome to part 4, in which I hope it's not too much to ask that we stick to the MN Talk Guidelines

As many people have asked about Syria, I'm pleased to say that a new discussion on that subject has been started (by another poster here.

but that's just the kind of credentials they like in an expert guest on US news shows wannabe.

sorry for my depressing posts. i just don't see anything stopping them and i'm afraid there has been so much damage done now that even if they stopped what is left is hell on earth and slow, miserable, traumatised, destruction of life anyway. i know how miserable that sounds and i should be optimistic but this has gone on for so so so long and this is just another round as far as the world gives a shit but from what we're hearing it is a whole new level of utterly deliberate exterminatory type intent without any room for doubt of the real intentions here. and STILL the world does nothing. so the world will do nothing.

i suppose their only hope might have been russia if you think globally about it as they too have an interest in the middle east and might be the only force big enough to have some clout against israels buddies but i haven't heard much and they are rather busy with their own stuff which i'm now paranoid is rather convenient.

Cunning media ploy to announce this at 8.30 on a sunday morning. Do they think this will disappeasr?

Another attack on a UN school?

Your right Honey I respect Theresa May for rejecting Pamela Gellers entry to the country

i wish we were capable of more mass action - which we are if we have the numbers and are not so cowed by legislation and threats of fines and getting in trouble.

for example - i would have every single person who supports palestine cancel their tv license payments and write saying that as the bbc has broken it's mandate to be a neutral/non partisan reporter of news we will not be paying as we are not obliged to fund propaganda.

likewise but bigger and the big authorities would spank us boo hoo - every person to cancel all payments for council tax saying they cannot pay funding towards a system that condones genocide and ethnic cleansing as that would make them complicit in war crimes.

things like that would have more effect than protesting on the streets (they don't give a fuck) and not buying a few israeli strawberries.

we seem to have lost our rebellious spirit along with our class awareness sadly.

(and if we hadn't lost our class awareness we wouldn't need it explaining why 'we are all palestinians. rant over. sorry)

I mentioned this days ago that Israel knew the soldier was dead. They destroyed every inch of the area around his capture and killed him. Part of the Hannibal Directive maybe?

They used his death to leverage more support at home and internationally and commit massacres like never before. The fact the soldier died was suggested by reputable news agencies and reporters who realised quickly that there was no way any man woman child building could survive the pulverisation israel was subjecting Gaza to.

Naomi Wolf has posted this link on fb www.ottawajewishbulletin.com/2014/01/meet-rafael-barak-israels-new-ambassador-to-canada/

Her and others around the world are realising this is about gas after all. In the article the ambassador states that Israel is not only the land of milk and honey they have also now found natural gas.

jfjfp.com/?p=63263

Another article explaining more. The soldier was probably killed to neutralise any advantage to hamas. Did the idf kill their own the article asks.

And beit lahiya now being targeted after people have been texted and had phone messages to go home. Its so blatant.

Honeys right. We should stop paying TV licence. We should stop paying council tax. We should stage a general strike until Cameron is forced to act.

www.thisdayinwikileaks.org/2014/08/2-august-2014.html?m=1

Wiki leaks reporting that Israel secretly told the US that they intend to bomb civilians and keep Gaza on the brink of humanitarian crisis.

Everyone knew the soldier was dead. The most dreadful part if this is that the UK and UK were continuing to supply arms to.israel whilst these innocent people were being killed. Our taxes. Makes me want to be sick.

Expect to hear Nutty announce that the international community must come and rebuild Gaza. With contracts awarded to the UK and US to rebuild the infrastructure etc. Very lucrative.

Israel should be be made to pay financially and by being brought before the ICC.

If only we could organise a national day of solidarity which includes strikes marches protests boycotts.

Somewhere, thanks for the link. Interesting to see the priorities. Given trade is the primary focus, boycotting Israeli goods, companies etc, tho it won't have an instant effect, will start to hurt, and should be continued for at least as many years as the aggression against Palestine.

wannabestepfordhousewife - no I can't imagine anyone thoughtful would take Pamela G seriously thank goodness. I hadn't heard of her until about two weeks ago when I googled something or other and stumbled onto her rather nasty website. Good to hear Theresa May wouldn't let her into Blighty. Didn't know about that.

I really must go and do some work but I've just googled Sean Hannity + Pamela Geller because I was thinking what a perfect match they'd be and sure enough she's been on his Fox News show as part of a panel. Ugh. I won't link to it here because I really don't want to promote either of them.

It makes me smile though because if I were on the IDF's media team (there's a fantasy), I think I'd write to her and say please Pamela, please stop supporting us. A bit like some of the posters we've had on here in the last few days.

m.aljazeera.com/story/201472911136812616

This was mentioned by someone upthread and this article by al jazeera discusses it. Was this massacre designed to market the iron dome? Israel are expected to make billions selling the dome to other regimes around the world.

Sorry for all the links this morning. I feel completely helpless but sharing information and links is a way for me to assuage my own guilt.

Will the bastardized press of the world issue an apology to hamas for declaring without evidence that the soldier was kidnapped? Will they report that Israel has lied throughout this massacre? When will there be an arms embargo for Israel? Haaretz reports today that Israel is gathering together a huge legal team to counter any arguments of war crimes.

Meanwhile, reports of another unwra school hit this morning. Israel obviously want to ensure no one is left alive.

Id really like to know why they admitted that the soldier died and wasn't really kidnapped? They've lied so much and it would have benefitted them to continue this lie. Now they all look callous and Obama looks biased and uninformed (to be polite). What am I missing?

Praps it leaked. I wonder if the soldiers on the ground can't stomachs it any more. They're actually people too, albeit it brainwashed and whipped up in self righteous fear.

'Was this massacre designed to market the iron dome? '

No because there are reports that the Iron Dome is a bit of a myth. All a bit technical, I don't understand it all.

"Prize winning Israeli defense and aerospace engineering expert Dr. Moti Shefer stated, during a recent interview with Radio 103, that the infamous Israeli “Iron Dome” security system was one of the biggest bluffs that he’d ever seen."

...

Dr. Shefer was recently quoted by Israeli media as saying:

“There is no missile in the world today able to intercept missiles or rockets. Iron Dome is a sound and light show that is intercepting only Israeli public opinion, and itself, of course. Actually, all the explosions you see in the sky are self explosions. No Iron Dome missile has ever collided with a single rocket. Open spaces are a myth invented in order to up Iron Dome’s current interception percentages. The rockets announced as intercepted by Iron Dome either never reach the ground, or are virtual rockets invented and destroyed on the Iron Dome control computer. To this day, no one has ever seen an intercepted rocket fall to the ground.

“What lands here is what’s launched. The parts we see on the ground are from Iron Dome itself. We’re shooting at ourselves, mainly virtually. The virtual rocket was invented in order to increase the vagueness surrounding Iron Dome. Assume that a real rocket arrives. What does the command and control system do? It creates nine more virtual rockets, and transmits their paths on computer graphics to the rocket launcher operators. The launcher operators see 10 rockets and launch 10 Iron Dome interceptors. People hear 10 booms, one rocket enters, and you get a 90% success rate.”

According to Dr. Shefer, the “Iron Dome” system is but a component of a widespread conspiracy, in which two interested parties afraid of peace are participating: the defense industries and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, Al Ray further reports."

www.globalresearch.ca/iron-dome-is-a-bluff-says-israeli-defense-expert-moti-shefer/5391478

www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/success-of-israels-iron-dome-defensive-shield-questioned/article5830196/

“Initially, I drank the Kool-Aid on Iron Dome, just as initially I did with the Patriots,” said Theodore Postol, a physicist and missile-defence expert at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. It was Prof. Postol who, during the 1991 Persian Gulf War, debunked Pentagon claims that its Patriot anti-missile system was successfully shooting down Iraqi Scud missiles.

“I’m skeptical. I suspect it is not working as well as the Israelis are saying … but there is great value in the strategic deception” in claiming very high success rates, Prof. Postol said in an interview"

The more I hear and see, the more exasperated and disgusted I am with our world leaders and politicians.

You are right, it's all about gas and oil. America have funded Israel to have a stronghold in the Middle East. What was the Iraq war all about if not for that? Why else put the vast sums of money into the Iraqi war and funding the Israeli regime if not to have a bolt hole in an area rich of natural resources? Do they think we're fucking stupid? Al-Queda is just the tip of the iceberg.

Whether America and the docile poodles of Cameron et al believe their own propaganda and the fucking lies coming from Israel, or whether they are viewing it objectively, seeing exactly what we're seeing in terms of war crimes and just turning a blind eye - I don't know.

Am rapidly losing my faith in humanity the longer this continues with no repercussions coming from the West. Don't they fucking see it? How can they not fucking see it?

What thoughts are they - our western world leaders - processing before they go to bed with the images of an apocalyptic Gaza in their minds - do they truly believe it was because Israel needed to defend herself? Where's the suffering in Israel then? Where's the images of dead toddlers in the rubble in the street? Where's the desolation and despair in Israel as the only image in my mind is that of people in a beach party clapping at bombs and missile strikes.

I've emailed Cameron and will email Obama and others later today once I can curb my language and temper enough to do so. They may as well be out there triggering the missiles as through their reluctance to take action, they all have blood on their hands.

of course they don't buy the propaganda - there might be a lot of shitty downsides of an eton and oxford/cambridge education but i doubt stupidity, unawareness of history, power and politics is one of them.

as comforting as it would be to believe they're just stupid, they're not. it's a question of ethics, not intelligence quota.

'Don't they fucking see it?'

They see it, but they can't do anything about it, they are not allowed, and now the whole world can see that.

It is nothing new. This is how the world really works and always has done. It is about power and political objectives. It is not just Israel. I have seen Neatanyahu on the BBC a few years ago very effectively stopping BBC hypocrisy by mentioning what Britain did in the fire bombing of Dresden, which was not a military target.

can't/won't/whatever. same difference really if you choose to get in the game and STAY in the game. can't for a person of any conscience would mean getting out of the game, with a cheap enough to conscience to sell it soon becomes won't i should think.

sorry lost the ability to type coherently it seems. 'with a cheap enough to sell conscience it soon becomes a willing 'won't' ' is what i was trying to say i think.

It is worse than won't, because it is can't, which means powerlessness. The puppets don't like going on TV when they know how disgusted much of teh populationa are with them. But they cannot do anything.

Here is Peter Hitchens in today's Mail on Sunday on where their powerlessness may lead us over Ukraine. They are both exaamples of how the world really works and how they cannot do anything different.

"These vainglorious fools will march us into another inferno"

...

"You might note that, at the time, hardly a voice in so-called mainstream, grown-up media or politics was raised against the Libya folly.

Few (but happily, enough) spoke or wrote against Mr Cameron’s even madder scheme to overthrow the Assad government in Syria.

If we had supported that, we would have found ourselves on the same side as the Islamist fanatics of Isis, now murdering, persecuting and mutilating their way across the Middle East to the terror of all.

It might just be a good moment to wonder if our united national leadership, utterly wrong on every foreign policy issue they have ever faced, are also wrong now, as they march towards what may well end up as war with Russia.

People still don’t grasp how dangerous the conflict in Ukraine already is, or how powerfully Russia believes it has been wronged by an arrogant, aggressive West.

Ukraine’s armed forces, like Israel’s in Gaza, are ruthlessly using artillery and bombs on densely populated areas and will soon be fighting in the million-strong, close-packed city of Donetsk.

The UN estimates 800 civilian deaths and 2,000 civilian wounded so far. The region is riven by the sound of guns, the Guns of August thundering yet again.

It is no mere skirmish. It is a war in the making. Do you really want to join in? This is a dangerous time of year. It will be less dangerous if we refuse to trust our leaders.

Let us have no more moves towards conflict with Moscow without a full recall of Parliament. And let us pray that our MPs are reading some history on their holidays."

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2714462/PETER-HITCHENS-These-vainglorious-fools-march-inferno.html#ixzz39K6doFg0

They are all on holiday. they usually coincidentally are whenever there is a real crisis. Will they recall parliament? What for? They can't do anything anyway.