Part 4: Israeli-Palestinian conflict

[AndHarry]

New thread again.

Thread 1 - started when 3 Israeli boys were found murdered.

Thread 2 - in which we mainly discussed Operation Protective Edge.

Thread 3 - in which we continued to discuss Operation Protective Edge, the wider conflict and international involvement.

Welcome to part 4, in which I hope it's not too much to ask that we stick to the MN Talk Guidelines

As many people have asked about Syria, I'm pleased to say that a new discussion on that subject has been started (by another poster here.

Totally agree Backinthering. What a disappointment that man is. Not sure why I am so shocked.

I was a supporter of Obama but sadly no longer, I feel let down by a man who has used his time in office to promote peace. Politics is so dirty. Very few UK MPs willing to put their heads above the paraphet as well.

Why are they supporting (verbally and with arms) this? Money I guess.

Genuine question. Does anyone know why the capture of the soldier is being called a kidnapping? Is not capturing of each others soldiers something that is "normal" in war?

I've just had the misfortune of turning my tv on at the same time Obama was starting his apologist shite. I can not believe what I'm seeing with my own eyes, the suffering of the Palestinian people, which is followed up by this sort of shit from Obama and other officials. Are they really taking the kidnap of 1 soldier more seriously than the massacre of hundreds of children. I feel like I'm getting gaslighted by our media, and world leaders.
Can someone more intelligent than me, explain WHY they /we won't condemn Israelis actions ?? Surely they speak for themselves?

You couldn't make it up. Not in my worst nightmares could I have imagined The Times of Israel calling for genocide, FFS. Appalling and horrifying are not strong enough words.

What does Israel have to do or say before the world is convinced that they must be stopped? That her current rulers are evil?

Just - I think it's got something to do with the fact that Israel refuse to see hamas/palestine as legitimate foe. They are terrorists ergo this is not a war but a massacre of the Israelis which they have to defend themselves against.

Go figure.

Its very frightening really, the world leaders are just turning a blind eye to Genocide, being apologists, we've been here before.

I made the mistake at looking on Twitter I have now seen images that I can not unsee and I feel so angry, anger at myself for wishing I hadnt seen them, I feel pathetic. Im not living what these people are living.

Justasecond the problem with that is you wander into Americanism of 'collateral damage' and such like. It is dehumanising. The fact is people are dying. On both sides

Hank you to C4 and al jazeera for extensive coverage of the palestinian deaths and casualties. Very balanced reporting.

100 dead today. What price israel has extracted from palestine for the capture of their soldier.

Thank. Not hank!

The aforementioned blogpost was removed:

^The Times of Israel on Friday removed an unacceptable blog post, entitled “When genocide is permissible.”

This blog post, which was described by our Ops & Blogs editor as both damnable and ignorant, blatantly breached The Times of Israel’s editorial guidelines.

We have discontinued the writer’s blog.

The Times of Israel maintains an open blog platform: Once we have accepted bloggers, we allow them to post their own items. This trust has rarely been abused. We are angry and appalled that it was in this case, and will take steps to prevent a recurrence.

We will not countenance blog posts that incite to violence or criminal acts.^

But what kind of place breeds that kind of thinking in the first place?

(Apologies for C&P vast tracts.)

Please please do explain where all the millions of dollars that have been given in aid has gone. Apart from the tunnels and weapons of course. Maybe if the money had been used for food, medicines and basic infrastructure then you wouldn't have been writing the above post. It's all about looking at the greater picture. I'm not saying that what is happening is not awful but look at the bigger picture please

fairandbalanced how would you describe the bigger picture?

He was not the only one. One tweeter said if they dont kill the civilians the terrorists will win. Hopefully they are a stupid monority.

Read #gaza for news and opinions (click on individual tweets too for responses and more news)

I have not had the stomach to watch the news yet today. I have read some tweets that the Shaifa hospital was warned by phone to evacuate, but they dint know where to go and there was blond panic, that it has been hit, that theres no place left in the morgue and bodies being stored in dairy fridges, hardly any water or electricity for four days and that Rafah? has been declared closed military zone and people told to evacuate? I knew the ceasefire would not hold, same old, and claim and counterclaim :(

As for the US saying the capture of the Israeli soldier is barbaric, one tweeter said thats rich, so blowing off a childs face is just a regrettable civilian loss but capturng someone as a POW is barbaric. The US speakers have lost it.

Thank you to the poster who put up the video of the idiot Hannitys rang at Russell Brand. I see he still has not changed his ways. WTG for Geraldo saying what you do is make peace with your enemies.

Still hoping its the begnning of / last of the carnage.

Here's a glimpse at the bigger picture:

www.countthekids.org

*rant

June55 yes - hearing Obama talking about the potential capture of a soldier as barbaric, then thinking of the pictures I have seen on twitter, I actually want to just scream. It feels like madness.

This summarises it well for me: guardian link

Onestep, totally agree, Obama has been a real let down. I cannot make sense of this outrage over one soldier when so many civilians are dead. Clearly Palestinian life is cheap.

@ Backinthering, thankfully many journalists, commentators, bloggers and tweeters in the UK (including Jewish groups and individuals thank God) are speaking out. Outclassed alot of politicians by far.

To give the benefit of the doubt to Obama I would have to believe he is a puppet and/or he does not have the power/is afraid of doing something in case he makes things worse in the whole region. I have no idea. I am very surprised though in general as he is a black American and will know all about historical (and not that long ago either) abuse, suppressions and atrocities against black people and has basically screwed up today.

Can someone please show me the Hamas charter, as I keep hearing it calls for destruction of Israel. The one I have seen quoted continually is the 1988 one. That is 25 years ago, is there a newer one or not?

BBL/tomorrow. Prayers for peace and normality.

Today has highlighted the absolute different value placed on life. Palestinian lives are totally dispensable, predictable and worth nothing. As if this massacre could not plunge to lower depths. What does teach the world's ethnic minorities? That you are not safe. It's very depressing to be raising children in this world.

The world's press are stood outside the captured soldiers family home. His photo is everywhere. His father has asked for no stone to be left unturned in Gaza. Are there any stones or buildings left in tact?

Obama can not stand for re-election so it does make you wonder what he is so afraid of. I am trying to think back and remember if Clinton was any better.

Love Desmond

Didn't obama describe Mandela as his personal hero? Calling him a dignified warrior for peace and justice? Shame he can't emulate his hero.
I am do disappointed in Obama. I had high hopes when he was elected.