Part 4: Israeli-Palestinian conflict

[AndHarry]

New thread again.

Thread 1 - started when 3 Israeli boys were found murdered.

Thread 2 - in which we mainly discussed Operation Protective Edge.

Thread 3 - in which we continued to discuss Operation Protective Edge, the wider conflict and international involvement.

Welcome to part 4, in which I hope it's not too much to ask that we stick to the MN Talk Guidelines

As many people have asked about Syria, I'm pleased to say that a new discussion on that subject has been started (by another poster here.

It's very friendly.

If you're thinking about coming- do it.

I wonder how many hundreds will be killed until the soldier is released?

What little values israel has for palestinian life.

Senate approves additional Iron Dome missile defense funding for Israel by unanimous consent -

the cat if i still lived in London Id be there in a flash, hope the demo goes well, and that theres some media there.

Nads - Amen to that.

I am so sorry for butting in, and not reading, but there will be another march next ( not this) Saturday. Please start planning to attend ....

thecat good luck at the demo. I'll be attending anything in Scotland that comes up.

Outside the Israeli Embassy thecat do you know the time or where I can find out? I know DH wants to go as well so I think we`ll plan to come up to that. I want to be counted, I want the powers that be know that they have to take the peoples feelings into account.

Oh good god - just when you think you're becoming numbed from the barrage of terrible pictures.
A man next to the covered body of his disabled teenage sister, with her wheelchair lying next to them on it's side.
In a ditch, like she was nothing. No facebook pages for her. No condemnation by the US.

her

Sorry link confusion:
Link here

Good on you thecat I wish I lived in London!

backinthering two pictures finished me off- last night, one of a child destroyed by a shell and this morning, of children and fishermen at the beach during the 'ceasefire'

As for the captures soldier words fail me- capturing soldiers is normal in war, killing innocents is normal too, alas, but since when is one soldier worth more than hundreds of children in the eyes of the west and the media? Oh yeah, since forever.....

archive.today/RPf3M

The times of israel today headlines with: when genocide is permissible.

The Israelis are only offended by the term genocide when it is used in relation to palestine. This is a deplorable article and a disgrace that Israel think like this having been bolstered and supported by the west. Just when I think I could not be any more horrified.

Unless the UK and US stop supporting israel the siege and murders will never end. I'm disgusted at the reporting of the capture of the soldier. It is completely biased. One reporter was talking about the 'kidnap' with a backdrop of a video showing badly charred bodies of palestinian children. Wtf is going on!

It's sickening. And this is the country that US congressmen are falling over themselves to describe as their "closest ally".

Also just watching John Kerry describe the ceasefire terms yesterday. Saying that the ceasefire terms would allow Israel to continue their operations in the tunnels. So, a one-sided ceasefire then?
I was watching the news this morning, after the ceasefire had started, and there was black smoke rising over Gaza as a result of an airstrike.

Not that I'd necessarily take Hamas' word either but I don't trust anything that comes out of the mouths of the IDF and the Israelis. They lie and lie and lie again.

I'm going to C&P that article linked immediately above because it is absolutely shocking:

udging by the numbers of casualties on both sides in this almost one-month old war one would be led to the conclusion that Israel has resorted to disproportionate means in fighting a far less- capable enemy. That is as far as what meets the eye. But, it’s now obvious that the US and the UN are completely out of touch with the nature of this foe and are therefore not qualified to dictate or enforce the rules of this war – because when it comes to terror there is much more than meets the eye.
I wasn’t aware of this, but it seems that the nature of warfare has undergone a major shift over the years. Where wars were usually waged to defeat the opposing side, today it seems – and judging by the number of foul calls it would indicate – that today’s wars are fought to a draw. I mean, whoever heard of a timeout in war? An NBA Basketball game allows six timeouts for each team during the course of a game, but last I checked this is a war! We are at war with an enemy whose charter calls for the annihilation of our people. Nothing, then, can be considered disproportionate when we are fighting for our very right to live.
The sad reality is that Israel gets it, but its hands are being tied by world leaders who over the past six years have insisted they are such good friends with the Jewish state, that they know more regarding its interests than even they do. But there’s going to have to come a time where Israel feels threatened enough where it has no other choice but to defy international warnings – because this is life or death.
Most of the reports coming from Gazan officials and leaders since the start of this operation have been either largely exaggerated or patently false. The truth is, it’s not their fault, falsehood and deceit is part of the very fabric of who they are and that will never change. Still however, despite their propensity to lie, when your enemy tells you that they are bent on your destruction you believe them. Similarly, when Khaled Meshal declares that no physical damage to Gaza will dampen their morale or weaken their resolve – they have to be believed. Our sage Gedalia the son of Achikam was given intelligence that Yishmael Ben Nesanyah was plotting to kill him. However, in his piety or rather naiveté Gedalia dismissed the report as a random act of gossip and paid no attention to it. To this day, the day following Rosh Hashana is commemorated as a fast day in the memory of Gedalia who was killed in cold blood on the second day of Rosh Hashana during the meal. They say the definition of insanity is repeating the same mistakes over and over. History is there to teach us lessons and the lesson here is that when your enemy swears to destroy you – you take him seriously.
Hamas has stated forthrightly that it idealizes death as much as Israel celebrates life. What other way then is there to deal with an enemy of this nature other than obliterate them completely?
News anchors such as those from CNN, BBC and Al-Jazeera have not missed an opportunity to point out the majority of innocent civilians who have lost their lives as a result of this war. But anyone who lives with rocket launchers installed or terror tunnels burrowed in or around the vicinity of their home cannot be considered an innocent civilian. If you’ll counter, that Hamas has been seen abusing civilians who have attempted to leave their homes in response to Israeli warnings to leave – well then, your beginning to come to terms with the nature of this enemy which should automatically cause the rules of standard warfare to be suspended.
Everyone agrees that Israel has the right to defend itself as well as the right to exercise that right. Secretary General Ban Ki Moon has declared it, Obama and Kerry have clearly stated that no one could be expected to sit idle as thousands of rockets rain down on the heads of its citizens, placing them in clear and present danger. It seems then that the only point of contention is regarding the measure of punishment meted out in this situation.
I will conclude with a question for all the humanitarians out there. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu clearly stated at the outset of this incursion that his objective is to restore a sustainable quiet for the citizens of Israel. We have already established that it is the responsibility of every government to ensure the safety and security of its people. If political leaders and military experts determine that the only way to achieve its goal of sustaining quiet is through genocide is it then permissible to achieve those responsible goals?

Is this for real???? Written by Yochanan Gordon. Is this incitement to genocide? Are there people out these who agree with this logic??

The US, it's just disgraceful. However, look at their track record- and especially in Latin America. One of the most hair raising books I ever read was 'deterring democracy' by Noam Chomsky- brrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

:( :( :(

Thank god someone else is horrified. I feel I am actually living in some parallel upside down universe. Where oppression is congratulated, where the oppressed are murdered and paraded for the world to see and depicted as terrorists.

And where the live capture of a soldier is considered barbaric but the murder of hundreds of children is considered self defence.

I know this song was written about Ireland but it really does seem to describe how the Israeli government look at the Palestinians m.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ejga4kJUts.

Somewheresafe your right it is like a parallel universe I can't quite get my head around a one sided ceasefire or one life been worth 40 others

was not a headline it was a blog, aaaaaand it was removed. Just incase you are not aware, blogs are personal opinions

a day out at a creche in Gaza www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=802664019758029&set=vb.221740897850347&type=2&theater

Sarah if you click on Translate? Says it was filmed in Syria.

Deny, deflect, defame.

Israel really needs to reassess it's strategy. My sister was at the match today and said it was well attended and very vocal.

At least the rest of the world has woken up to the brainwashed

Oh Obama shut up! You weak excuse of an apologist. Watching him take questions just now. What hope for the Palestinians if the leader of the most powerful country on earth makes it so abundantly and publicly clear whose "side" they are on, that Israel can act with impunity?
"Heart-breaking" Really? Try a war-crime. A massacre. A genocide.