Part 4: Israeli-Palestinian conflict

[AndHarry]

New thread again.

Thread 1 - started when 3 Israeli boys were found murdered.

Thread 2 - in which we mainly discussed Operation Protective Edge.

Thread 3 - in which we continued to discuss Operation Protective Edge, the wider conflict and international involvement.

Welcome to part 4, in which I hope it's not too much to ask that we stick to the MN Talk Guidelines

As many people have asked about Syria, I'm pleased to say that a new discussion on that subject has been started (by another poster here.

Donnie if aid that has been given to be spent on infrastructure, housing etc so that it doesn't remain a ghetto has been spent instead on rockets and tunnels who exactly is at fault? Hamas are to blame for the way it's people live.

Somewhere I thought concentration camps originated in the boer war and were actually a British 'invention' for want of a better word.

Oh and stop citing Richard Kemp as a credible authority. If you had bothered to read the previous threads you will have seen that he has already been exposed as a crackpot with his own agenda . He is a christian extemist who wants to hasten the end of times.

Justasecond The truth is inconvenient sometimes isn't it?

Wannabe you are probably right. The point is Jewish people do not own the rights to the term concentration camp. No one does. The Jewish people criticising prescott mentioned that term specifically.

Re the unwra building housing weapons did you see Chris Gunness from unwra on every news channel yesterday? He confirmed weapons were found stored in an empty UN building. The one bombed by Israel was housing unwra staff and innocent civilians unwra had offered protection to. I repeat: unwra provided idf with the gps location of the safe house 17 times that day and we're refused an opportunity to evacuate. Do you understand this?

The UN and everyone else condemned Hamas for storing weapons in the empty building. Although Gunness made a valid point that there was no way of knowing if Israel had planted the weapons there themselves. The point is, finding weapons in an empty building does not give israel the legitimacy or licence to bomb a school killing 15 children. Right?

'Somewhere I thought concentration camps originated in the boer war and were actually a British 'invention' for want of a better word.'

Yes that is what I thought, but they were used before the Boer War by the British in Tasmania. However, looking on wikipedia, it seems they were used by Romans etc much earlier on.

You have no right to say that justasecond! Why is your opinion anymore valid than anyone else's.

And why swear?

I didn't realise that claig

Justasecond who do you mean by hasbara trolls?

Hello, Jocoo, and welcome to Mumsnet.

It's lovely to see a new member joining and quickly taking such an active part.

You might like to read some of the thread first, though.

Google it wannabe. There is a lot of information on the phenomenon

And I have no problem with opinions different from mine. What I object to is new posters joining mumsnet with the express purpose of spreading worn out pro Israeli propaganda.
If swearing offends you, you should ask yourself whether mumsnet is the right place for you.

"Israeli casualties are a lot lower only because they did spend the millions in aid they received to protect their citizens, by building bomb shelters and the Iron Dome protection system against Hamas rockets (which are sophisticated nowadays, not the firecrackers claimed by some people)."

This is an interesting article worth a read which says that the iron dome is not as effective as we are all being led to beleive it is. $225 million more in funding has been from the US to accelerate production of the Dome missile defense components. It seems the Hamas rockets are not as deadly as we are being led to think. I am not saying they don't cause any deaths but they are quite puny as rockets go.

www.democracynow.org/2014/7/31/iron_dome_or_iron_sieve_evidence

Justasecond I am a long term poster and swearing has it's place on here but I don't think it's needed to attack people who don't share the same views as you on such an obviously contentious issue.

I once again add mumsnet should deal with any posters we don't think are genuine.

All of your post at 13.30 is against guidelines and not helpful.

You should report it then Wannabe and let MN deal with it. I did not attack any poster personally I am a long term poster too.

Let's be fair, the state of Israel and its supporters have a lot of work to do if they are to win round public approval for killing and maiming people by the thousand, most of whom are non-combatants, and many of them are children.

I do not speak Hebrew but I understand from the Israel Citizens' Information Council (ICIC) that "hasbara" means explaining, and that it is the duty of supporters of Israel to do their best to put across Israel's arguments and perspective.

From that, I don't know why there is any objection to the word.

I did look at some Resources giving advice on what to say, and how to get the message out, but I can't find them now. I don't know if my search is wrong, or if the web pages have been removed.

Meanwhile, there is an interesting article here from a well-known UK paper which I'm pretty sure is not a mouthpiece for Hamas.

There is some information on Hasbara on this blog( disclaimer- which I have not come across before and therefore cannot vouch for the contents of)
www.gilad.co.uk/writings/jonathon-blakeley-a-guide-to-hasbara-trolls.html

The supporters of the Islamic Jihadists known as Hamas, with other similar organizations within Gaza, have even MORE work to do, as there was progress on the Israel-Palastine problem BEFORE Hamas gained more power, by forcibly taking Gaza from moderate control.

FATAH whose strongest support base lies in the West Bank, recognises Israel's right to exist and is formally committed to peace talks with Israel.

HAMAS (controlling the political agenda from 2006/7) denounces the notion of direct talks with Israel and does not recognise Israel's right to exist.

Hamas’ militia there, the Qassam Brigades, numbers 25,000, and it also controls a further 20,000 armed personnel, with or without their extremist chuckle brothers in Gaza, the Islamic Jihad, Al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigade, Popular Resistance Committees and The Army of Islam.

Israel refuses to negotiate lasting solutions while Hamas runs the Islamist show and speaks for the Palestinians.

Just think what MIGHT have been achieved in Gaza and elsewhere if Hamas (Islamic Resistance Movement) had not seized control, as with Fatah marginalised and only ‘unified’ with Hamas based on internal power plays, the Islamist lunatic party’s have taken over the asylum.

Mark Steel suma it up nicely. marksteelinfo.com/israel-you-rascals/

*sums

I have been very concerned by the oft-repeated stories about "Human Shields" which occur in Israeli propaganda.

wannabestressfree very kindly directed me towards Amnesty International.

You can read about "Human Shields" here

"I've been very concerned" about human shields .....yeh right.

Hamas are cowards and a piece of shit on every moderate Palestinians sandals, placing arms factories, rockets and other military hardwear near those, that if get hurt by Israel, Hamas gets their 'Brucie Bonus' via the media.

In Israel 90% of the people understand this and don't care if others don't understand, THEY are in the firing line, not us, from Islamists who want EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM, DEAD.

""I've been very concerned" about human shields .....yeh right."

Yes, it is right, and I have indeed been very concerned by the oft-repeated stories about "Human Shields" which occur in Israeli propaganda. I am quite shocked that you don't seem to consider Human Shields a matter of concern. You mentioned them yourself, twice, only yesterday.

I'm very pleased to have found out a bit more, as I'm sure you will be too when you read it.