Part 2: Israeli-Palestinian conflict

[AndHarry]

Starting a new thread as the original is almost full.

The original thread is here. It was started on 1st July after three Israeli boys were found murdered, before the murder of the Palestinian boy and the resumption of sustained rocket attacks and Operation Protective edge.

There are lots of excellent posts and links in the original thread showcasing a variety of views. The main consensus was that there is fault on both sides. We also considered various options for people on both sides of the conflict to work towards a lasting peace.

[cleanmean]

Quivering, are you being deliberately ironic?

[ilovemonstersInc]

If the israelis were bothered about peace then they wouldn't be doing what they are

[Backinthering]

Quivering peace would mean peace for everyone.
To answer Anyas question, no I didn't feel the same way about the 7/7 bombings as the perpetrators lived in the UK and were not subjected to lives of desperation.

[halfdrunkcoffee]

There are some casualty figures here. As of 17 July, 41 children, 21 women (under age 60) and 14 senior citizens had been killed by Israel.

Cleanmean I also saw an article in the Guardian about a town that has no bomb shelters.

[ilovemonstersInc]

Im interested if it helps for peace but lets be honest here. Your going to have a biased view and so are a fewpeople on here.

Also must say I do feel for those israelis who do want peace.

[panachronic]

Ok Quivering. What is the israeli position. If you say, that hamas need to stop firing rockets, can you elaborate on the reasons why hamas are firing rockets into Israel?

[ilovemonstersInc]

Quivering how do you feel about the innocent people who have lost their lives? Or the family members who have lost their loved ones?
As a mother myself I cant even begin to imagine the pain they are going through

Ps sorry if that sounds bitchy dont want to come across as that. I just wondered what your views were

[justasecond]

Yes Quivering pls elaborate on whatyou think Israel really wants

[ohfourfoxache]

May I just add something rather controversial to the mix?

Arguably, the Palastinians are being persecuted, oppressed and murdered. They are being told to leave their homes. Their lives. Their families potentially split up if they evacuate. And even if they do evacuate, there is no guarantee of safety.

Let's look at this is simplistic terms - how is this different to the persecution and oppression and murder of Jewish communities in Germany etc?

WW2/ the holocaust occurred not long ago in human history. How can we as a species, 70 years down the line, still be making the same mistakes?

[ilovemonstersInc]

I would love to but currently not allowed to travel no further than 20mins from my home due to being on bed rest for premature labour otherwise id be more involved.

[TheTravellingLemon]

Yes, I do think that pointing the finger at one party and saying they are solely to blame is wrong. It fails to take into account the nuances of the situation, of which they are many. It will not help is move towards peace, on the contrary, it only serves to isolate groups on both sides, make dialogue harder a spread racially motivated violence beyond the area itself.

I've seen a video of Israelis cheering rockets being stopped by the iron dome. could this be the video to which you are referring?

[cleanmean]

Lemon I was referring to a photo which went viral last week and more recently news reports and tweets from Diane magney of cnn. Her tweets were deleted a few minutes later.

Lemon do you think the world should have looked at 'the nuances of the situation' in ww2 germany, or south Africa instead of taking action/condemning?

[Pulledapart]

Really we should just stand by and let the murders of innocent continue

[Pulledapart]

Source if info guardian.com ( I don't know how to link sorry)

Israel last mounted a large-scale invasion of the Gaza Strip during a three-week war in late 2008 and early 2009 that claimed 1,400 Palestinian and 13 Israeli lives.

I wonder what the statistics will be this time moreover how many of those lives will me children???

[TheHoneyBadger]

we don't need to 'take sides' or talk goodies and baddies. we have a very simple internationally agreed way to assess this - we have international law and human rights legislation.

it really can be that simple.

what needs to happen for peace? israel needs to follow the law. of course i wish peace for everyone but at the point that one side is brutally trampling all over human rights and flouting international law and committing war crimes on a daily basis clearly that's the first thing that needs addressing.

[TheTravellingLemon]

I wonder why they were deleted a few minutes later. I have seen a lot of videos and pictures go viral that have later transpired to be a misrepresentation at best and, at worst, complete fabrictions. I therefore try to view these things with some degree of skepticism. I thought my response might offer a reasonable explanation.

I'm not sure I fully understand what you want me to say about your second point. if I think that murder factories are wrong then I must agree that all Israelis are monsters?

[TheTravellingLemon]

I completely agree with you honeybadger. if everyone involved followed these laws there would be peace.

[cleanmean]

Lemon - not all Israelis support the genocide. I have family in Israel who are in despair about operation protective edge (oh, the absolute irony of that name)

I suppose the point I was trying to make was that although there are always nuances and complexities , sometimes a country will commit crimes so heinous and in such contravention of international law (well put by honey) that as humans we have no option but to condemn. Thank you for your response. I'm genuinely interested in hearing from other people.

[TheHoneyBadger]

lol sabbath didn't stop them murdering palestinians did it?

we must beware of using the terms jewish and israeli interchangably.

israel does not represent judaism and clearly in no way follows the laws of judaism.

[TheHoneyBadger]

why would you go? you're happy with what they're doing and see it as self defense right? you haven't condemned what they're doing and have consistently acted as an apologist to their actions. what place would you have at such a demonstration?

i do think the irony of israel trying to call itself a jewish state (as if it represents judaism) whilst breaking every god given law is relevant and the idea that it is ok to murder people on the sabbath but to speak out against murder is wrong is indeed bizarre.

if israel has modeled that it's ok to slaughter innocent children on the sabbath why would it occur to demo organisers that the sabbath is too important to israelis for them to attend a rally to try and save lives?

perhaps you could try seeing all people as 'persons' rather than labeling them human shields or collatoral damage.