Part 2: Israeli-Palestinian conflict

[AndHarry]

Starting a new thread as the original is almost full.

The original thread is here. It was started on 1st July after three Israeli boys were found murdered, before the murder of the Palestinian boy and the resumption of sustained rocket attacks and Operation Protective edge.

There are lots of excellent posts and links in the original thread showcasing a variety of views. The main consensus was that there is fault on both sides. We also considered various options for people on both sides of the conflict to work towards a lasting peace.

2 civilians already killed by tank fire. One a 5 month old baby. Unbelievable. I am raging at the injustice and I can't sleep.

yes pls Quivering, I would be interested to see that as I can see no other source when I google other than right wing pro Israel sites.

I fully understand the history of the region. I have lived there and still have family in Israel. Do you understand the history? Do you understand that Israel stole palestinian land and homes and has been ethnically cleansing the area for decades? And please don't tell me I'm being simplistic. That is the absolute essence of this whole crisis. Israel is illegally occupying that land.

IDF statement for ground invasion: BBC.

It said the goal was to "establish a reality in which Israeli residents can live in safety and security without continuous indiscriminate terror, while striking a significant blow to Hamas' terror infrastructure".

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Is IDF truly speaking for its Israeli residents? How can rockets fired from Palestine which get intercepted by Israel, warrant such a disgusting heavy handed approach? Israel is pretty safe and secure, but they cannot let Palestinians live.

What Israel is doing is inflicting indiscriminate terror. If Hamas is a terrorist group, then what does that make Israel? The world sees Israel as the epitome of a terrorist state

The world used to be shocked by suicide bombing and would find it appalling. Seeing Israel's tactics, the world now sees why someone would blow themselves up.

The might of Israel, with all its heavy artillery and weapons, has never been able to stop the resistance - the Palestinians are justified in fighting back.

Oh right, got it now!! Palestinian murder is more immoral than Israeli murder! There I was thinking everyone was equal.
I'm off, can't bear the apologists any longer!

Can you tell me specifically where you are reading that as that facebook page does not seem to have anything more recent than 2013? Also it is for the Palestinian National Authority not Hamas.

poppet the Israel apologists they leave a very bad taste in the mouth dont they? Their total disregard for anyone but themselves makes Israel sound pretty much like a dirty word!

quivering tell the facts of your definition of collective punishment to the father whose child had half his head blown off

Tell it to the mother of the 4 children, playing at the beach who Israeli army shot at until they got them.

Tell it to the family of the children who were feeding pigeons on the roof of their home.

Tell it to the 5 month old baby you killed tonight. Say, 'baby, you were killed tonight whilst my country's soldiers were looking for rocket stockpiles and you were just collateral. Had Hamas not thrown rockets, we would not have had to kill you. Its Hamas's fault that we have killed you. '

I am not surprised, that after seeing such atrocities and grief, that the Palestinian people become suicide bombers or human shields.

Quivering how can you keep defending the indefensible when, as we speak, innocents are dying?
I'm also going to a demo on Saturday. Feels nowhere near enough but need to do something to show that that arsehole David Cameron doesn't speak for me.

And re the suicide bombs. They are wrong but I understand why they happened. It's an act of supreme desperation.

I so wish I could attend the demo at 12 outside Downing Street on Saturday. David Cameron's actions have been repulsive! Every person who attends can show those at home that there is another view to that out forward by the BBC, and give heart to those around the world who condemn the terrorist actions of the Israeli govt.

Just saw on the news the ongoing support from the US.
So angry at that, as long ad Israel are allowed to act with impunity they will have no motivation to change their treatment of the Palestinians, and the misery, suffering and death with continue.

quivering it amazes me that on the one hand you sound so reasonable and fair and on the other you continue to justify Israel's slaughter. No mean feat! What would it take for you to change your view? If the children on the beach and the children on the roof weren't enough, is the five month old baby?

Even Nick Clegg has spoken out against Israeli actions (a bit) !!!

Quivering I hope you never get to speak to the bereaved father. Your faux empathy is sickening. Did you see yet more Israelis cheering last night as Gaza was pulverised?

Yes, yes I know Israel absolutely have no choice but to look for tunnels Hamas use but I can assure you that there are none in the crib of a newborn baby.

If you must apologise for Israel and it's genocide then be prepared to defend it's inhumane actions instead of consistently blaming Hamas and the victims themselves.

backinthering who else will test America's latest weaponry? Bone slicing bombs, white phosphorus and the like? America's support for Israel is the whole issue. So much for Obama- what a disappointment he's been overall.

it's all so awful. that the international community sits by and watches and does nothing - worse than nothing they come out in support of israel - is appalling.

to be in such plight and no one in the world come to your aid must indeed lead to desperation.

i think all the emotion has to be taken out and it has to be dealt with legally. the land is being occupied illegally, the tactics being used are illegal, human rights are being majorly contravened. those are the facts. we have international laws that are being utterly flouted. the focus should be on restoring legal conditions. until that is done israel is essentially committing war crimes, flouting international law and being a rogue state. whatever their agenda for condoning it the international community has to stop and start to apply the law.

i'm guessing whoever deliberately fired at the four children on the beach is not in a military prison cell now awaiting investigation but getting patted on the back and sent back out to kill some more palestinians.

there were witnesses to that action. for those watching israeli news has it been reported there? have the soldiers in question been arrested?