Part 2: Israeli-Palestinian conflict

[AndHarry]

Starting a new thread as the original is almost full.

The original thread is here. It was started on 1st July after three Israeli boys were found murdered, before the murder of the Palestinian boy and the resumption of sustained rocket attacks and Operation Protective edge.

There are lots of excellent posts and links in the original thread showcasing a variety of views. The main consensus was that there is fault on both sides. We also considered various options for people on both sides of the conflict to work towards a lasting peace.

though i agree holding it on a saturday is a shame for true jews (re: followers of their religion as opposed to just seeing themselves as a superior ethnic group acting collectively in their interests ((re: a class)) and owing nothing to anyone outside of that class).

so yes, it's a shame for jewish people that it is held on a saturday. i think the distinction between 'jewish' and 'israeli' is important so as not to tarnish all jews around the world with israel's behaviour.

so you do condemn what your government is doing then quivering?

that's a simple yes or no question by the way.

ohfourfoxache - what's happening in Gaza is terrible, but I don't think comparisons with the Nazis help. There are no gas chambers. People are not being lined up next to huge pits and shot in their thousands.
In Israel, whilst to some extent Arabs are second-class citizens they are not barred (as far as I know) from working in any profession or serving in the Knesset; this was mentioned in the first thread.

I can't go to the demo tomorrow as I have family staying, but I will be interested to see how much coverage it receives. AndHarry, I will try and plagiarise your letter to send to my MP, although I am quite bad at intending to write to MP and not doing so. I also have some family in Israel, though I don't have much contact with them, who do not agree with Israel's actions.

I understand this is an emotive topic but I don't think it is necessary to harangue those with a different opinion.

I know Eid is fast approaching but does anyone think it would be possible to set up a shoe box appeal for the children of Palestine so they know that the world is thinking of them.

wannabestepfordwife - I was wondering if there are any charities I could support that either promote peace or just help improve life in Gaza. I was thinking of donating to the Daughters for Life foundation.

i said it's a shame for true jews who are against israeli brutality and want to bring an end to this violent regime. i don't think that describes you really does it?

how awful for the genuinely jewish israelis who were against this slaughtering and evil to see it conducted on a sabbath day by a government that calls itself jewish

TheTravellingLemon I very much agree with your posts.

link

Wannabe there are lots of charities currently asking for donations for those affected.

.

children's

inknow its not the shoebox thingy but every penny helps in some way.

*I know

thehoneybadger hasn't Quivering said she condemns what Israel is doing? It is impossible to get anywhere if we can't attempt to understand more than one point of view. No-one is a warmonger on here.

There are also so many differences in Israel itself; even within the peace camp you get peace-lite kind of people who don't mind the security wall too much so long as it follows the green line, to a few who would support a one-state solution, some who support a two-state solution; there are centrists and extreme right-wingers and so on; there are secular Jews (or atheists who are culturally Jewish) and there are ultra-Orthodox and various people in between.

though i agree holding it on a saturday is a shame for true jews (re: followers of their religion as opposed to just seeing themselves as a superior ethnic group acting collectively in their interests ((re: a class)) and owing nothing to anyone outside of that class).

HoneyBadger - first, thanks for explaining true Judaism to me. Could you give me a definition of true Buddhism as well? Secondly, it's quite a racist definition, particularly given that even the most orthodox Jews don't believe that they are the only ones going to heaven, in contrast to traditional Christian teachings and many current Islamic interpretations, including in particular those to which Hamas adhere. So Jews don't believe non-believers are going to hell, many Christians and Muslims do believe that, but we're apparently the ones who consider ourselves superior. That's very logical (at least by the standards of most of the posts on this thread).

Ok so let me get this straight: a jew who does not attend synagogue every Saturday is not a 'true' jew. And, to top it all, those who aren't by this definition 'true' Jews just think they are superior ethnically.

Hmm.

Also, Honeybadger seems to be complaining about the Israeli govt not being Jewish enough. Does she think the world needs another fundamentalist state? Most people (but not HB, apparently), think we need fewer.

Well quite. Interesting.

lots of words in my mouth i see.

by true 'jew' i meant someone who actually follows their religion and places god given laws above politics and power. re: against murder, against brutality to ones neighbours, doesn't go round mass murdering on the sabbath day etc.

i didn't call you a non jew btw - the 'doesn't describe you' related to the part where i said 'those who genuinely want to see an end to this violent regime'. i meant those who wouldn't dream of justifying mass murder as 'self defense'.

and i have not in any way slated judaism other than to say that zionism and this brutal israeli regime does NOT represent or adhere to judaism. as agree by thousands of jews in this country and beyond who are speaking out against it.