Italian adoption case III

[Juliet123456]

The last thread says all I need to know about those in the system. It also the most legally dangerous thread I have ever seen on mumsnet. I hope someone has been through the posts for libel risk. It also entirely one sided and biased and makes me laugh.

The defensiveness of those involved in this area will hopefully disappear once we have the openness that JH and indeed many others are seeking and obtaining as the judges increasingly accept that it helps everyone to understand what are very difficult decisions - parents, children and lawyers and social workers and expert witnesses in this field.

It will continue to be important always to get to the facts and where possible publish the facts. I continue to believe that almost any of us could have our children removed if the state set its mind to that. If publishing more decisions and giving rights to parents and those involved and the children to write what they like on twitter, facebook and the like and to let parents and children even when separated communicate and talk about any issues they choose will help then let us hope the law continues down that course.

Juliet- if you think that legally this is one of the dodgiest MN threads, then you've clearly never been on a Madeleine McCann one.......

I am also neither an adoptive parent, or a social worker, or a family law barrister.

Just someone who has read a lorry load of shite over the years from Mr H.

I am disgusted that another thread has been started with this title.

Juliet can you please explain why you have chosen to ignore everything we have learned about this case and insist on peddling this disgusting lie about social workers stealing a baby from the womb?

You know that this isn't true, we all know that it isn't true and yet you insist on using this highly offensive scaremongering bullshit as a title.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

Ok, got to go and tidy up.
Before I go, just to repeat. I am not defensive. I know there are problems. But the system is designed to try to do the best to protect vulnerable children and to support families to stay together. I understand that these are often two competing aims, which explains why care proceedings are sometimes so difficult.

What JH does is dangerous and wrong. Please don't trust him. Please don't go to him for help and advice. If you are facing care proceedings you are entitled to legal help from the state. the vast majority of family lawyers I know work hard and are committed to trying to achieve the fairest outcome for their clients.

I am confident that everything I do in my professional life would stand up to scrutiny from anyone. So if anyone wants to contact me to talk about things more, or even to come and visit court with me, please feel free.

I agree something has gone badly wrong when so many people feel so compelled to want to believe that a woman would be forcibly sedated to have her baby 'ripped from her womb' to satisfy adoption targets.

The only way we will make this better is by transparency and discussion - and for the men who campaign to keep sexual abuse within the family to be treated with the contempt they deserve.

Bravo Spero. I don't think we have met professionally but I hope that should one of my clients have to use the Family Courts System, they get you presiding.

Oh and I posted on the other threads and explained that I have vast experience from the other end of the spectrum (ie the service user end)

My sister has psychosis, has been forcibly sectioned and has had her children removed.

My husband's 2 biological daughters were in foster care for a year after their BM abandoned them in another part of the country and wouldn't disclose their fathers details so he could be traced. He finally found them and went through a year of hell working with SS to get his daughters back. After a million assessments and meetings and months and months of strained monitored contact with his daughters, SS supported his desire to have the children returned and they were permanently reunited.

Because of this experience I have decided to become a SW and have begun studying for my MA in social work.

Please tell me does that make me one of the bullying cronies on this thread or one of the posters that you deem worthy of posting?

I may or may not agree with JH's politics, but by god he's speaking out on an issue that needs attention drawing to it.

No he isn't. He neatly creates a diversion so issues that desperatly need attention get ignored and nobody protests the constant reduction of funding and resources for the most vulnerable.

One of the main issues in both MH and SS is underfunding to the extent that there is nothing like the number of staff and resources needed. Let alone anything left over for appropirate and time sensitive checks and balances to weed out cases of human error or "specific human on a power trip". But how likely is it the voting public will pay heed to professionals at the coal face when they try to raise awareness of the human cost of cuts... when they have been painted as maciavellian monsters.

If my job in governement were to keep hacking away at the costs of caring for the most vulnerable in society until the safety net was just one nice, big, cheap hole, and there wasn't a handy Lone Maverick making my job oh so much easier in terms "distract, divide and conquer" ... I'd be tempted to create one.

Holey, what is that supposed to mean? And can you confirm whether you accept the points I made in response to your last message?

HoleySocksBatman

Would you care to elaborate what you think I am projecting ?

Maryz said: My beef with JH isn't that he criticises the system. I would have no problem with constructive criticism coupled with a real desire for change. But not a one-size-fits-all "social workers are evil" agenda.

I have never said all social workers are evil. I know quite a few support my proposals for change, but won't put their heads above the parapet because people like Maryz and Spero will try to shoot their heads off. (metaphorically)

The system is awful. Quite a lot of people working it it still manage to do a good job.

like-thinking SWs and those in similar professions patting each other on the back

I'm a TEFLer. And have been for more than 2 decades. Before that I worked for Bovis at Canary Wharf when it was still hole in the ground. There was a YTS in hairdressing earlier on. Not exactly the "professional back patting" air you ascribed to the direct quote. from my post.

I come at this from the "Bipolar and Italy specific" experience of spending 18 exhusting years on the service user side of the equation.

Ah, Mr Hemming, you're back. Perhaps you could now answer Maryz's questions sent at 11.18 today? Otherwise it might look as if you were evading them, mightn't it?

Ah John

Are you willing to publically say that you disagree with Ian Josephs stance on there being a conspiracy to steal babies, his advice to parents including non-cooperation and not reporting sexual abuse to the Police, AND can you say whether you have ever advised a parent to go to Ian Josephs for help AND are you willing to publically distance yourself from IJ's views?

Given that you speak with him, disucss things with him and have spoken well of him in the past, and indeed your names are very strongly linked with each other in this campaign area

Holey: whilst bashing the one person who is at least doing something about the problem by highlighting it.

This is the same point you made earlier, and I answered it not long after. Repeating the point rather than answering really doesn't make your case any more convincing. If you disagree with what I said, please explain why.

And, just for the record, I'm not a SW or in a similar profession, and I'm not a member of any cabal. I'm just someone who can read and analyse the facts. I'm sure it makes you feel safe trying to put people who disagree with you into some sort of pigeonhole, but why don't you at least try to engage with them rather than abusing them?

Holey: So i dont have any responsibility or impetus to respond to your post nennypops, and i will respond, like JH does, where and when i feel like doing so.

Oh, OK, I'll take it then that you can't back up your statement with facts, reasons or anything inconvenient like that. Just so we know where you're coming from.

I have commented on Ian Josephs and his golden rules on Mumsnet previously.

I refer you to the answer I gave previously.

I am not inclined to find the answer someone else can. I take the odd view that I only should have to defend my own views not comment on other people's views.

Incidentially Women against rape have recently commented critically about a family court case and womens aid have concerns as well.

Here is the WAR comment
womenagainstrape.net/content/victim-rape-and-domestic-violence-refuses-be-gagge

I will extract the specific point:

"Lisa Longstaff of WAR says:
"We are outraged at the double injustice faced by this mother who reported her partner to the police and testified in court, after he raped and tried to kill her. Instead of being praised for her courage in coming forward to protect her children and the public from an extremely violent man, she is being blamed for the violence and the trauma it has caused her, and faces losing her children as a result."

I would be keen to know how by agreeing that there is much in the system that needs change (primarily due to lack of resources) and inviting people to contact me directly to discuss issues further is 'shooting their head off'.

Metaphorically or otherwise.

Perhaps you could explain.

And at the same time please send me the stats to support your assertion that babies are taken into care to meet adoption targets.

thanks.

I would also genuinely like to know where on earth there has been any element of 'self congratulation' in this thread.

I am disgusted, appalled, angry and upset sometimes all at once. That is no measure of 'self congratulation'.

Sometimes I feel like I am on another world.

' I refer you to the answer I gave previously'

Well which answer was it? Can you repeat it NOW for the benefit of anyone reading who is fortunate enough not to have been exposed to you over the years and who needs reassurance NOW who is considering not reporting her abusive boyfriend to the police NOW who has a small child in her home possibly being abused NOW.

You find what I said and then comment on it. I will just requote WAR

"Lisa Longstaff of WAR says:
"We are outraged at the double injustice faced by this mother who reported her partner to the police and testified in court, after he raped and tried to kill her. Instead of being praised for her courage in coming forward to protect her children and the public from an extremely violent man, she is being blamed for the violence and the trauma it has caused her, and faces losing her children as a result."