Zimmerman found 'not guilty' of Trayvon Martin's murder

[Kveta]

m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23304198

Bloody hell.

How utterly crap for Martin's family and friends :( and how dangerous for race relations in Florida :(

It was certainly a key point during the trial Tabitha.Zimmerman lied about knowing and understanding it. So there was some significance attributed to that law otherwise why mention it?

From the article: "The statute is central to Zimmerman's defense in a case that captivated the United States throughout much of 2012 because police initially declined to arrest Zimmerman based on his self-defense argument and right to use deadly force under Florida law."

Shame the police didn't decline to arrest Marissa Alexander for 6 weeks under that law (or even never arrest her). Except of course she was black, didn't kill or injure anyone yet still finds herself doing 20 yrs for defending herself against a man who was attacking her and her family.

The fact is Zimmerman created by himself and for no reason, despite warnings the events that lead to Trayvon Martin's death. Marissa Alexander didn't create the situation she found herself in and yet she is the one in jail.

This blog post has an interesting take on the prosecutor and inherent racism within the system. Racism (like other discrimination and oppression) doesn't just come in spoken insults or violent acts. It is subliminal and intrinsic to society.

boomba It was a SYG defense, which operates in 25 states only. SYG amends self-defense in that you don't have to attempt to flee before you use justifiable force.
Zimmerman got off based on SYG, Alexander did not.

It was not SYG, that is a misrepresentation as part of the BBC's standard 'American are gun crazed racists loons' narrative. If someone is on top of you smashing your head into the ground then there is no option to flee.

Pursuing him was not SYG either, that is standard neighbourhood watch behaviour. I've met my local NHW in England, and they are a paranoid bunch, and would certainly investigate anyone who didnt fit, be they a white 'chav' in a hoodie, or anyone else who looked like 'dodgy'.

The fact that Martin was wearing a hoodie, and was a young male, would in the Uk make hima target of suspicion, race need not enter into that for NHW to want to pursue, as young hoodie wearing males are far more likely to be criminals, by indisputable crime stats, than say 60 year old ladies - had Martin been a little old black lady, Zimmerman is unlikely to have thought her up to no good.
Young males commit grossly disproportionate amounts of crime, and suspicion is entirely justified.

mixxy Zimmerman's lawyers did not plead SYG. The case was simple selfe defense- was Martin punching and slamming Zimmerman's head into the ground to the extent to make him fear for his life and did Martin try to grab the gun? The men's histories and the events leading up to the fight were irrelevant.

The jury considered all the evidence and concluded that there was enough to answer "yes" to both of these questions. It was a fair and thorough trial.

I feel desperately sorry for Zimmerman, who very clearly did not "racially profile" Martin - the media have already accepted that they edited the 911 call to omit the fact that Zimmerman did not volunteer Martin's race; he only stated it when asked to do so.

Martin's family made their point by getting the state to investigate properly and bring the matter to trial. However they seem unable to accept that the evidence shows that their son acted like a thug.

It's fair to say that Martin would not have been killed if the US public were not allowed to carry firearms - THAT is what is wrong with America. I say that even though there is a fair chance that an unarmed Zimmerman might have been killed in the assault.

You do not plead SYG, it removes from defense any attempt an demonstrate an attempt to flee. That is the legal meaning of SYG. It is the name of the legislation passed, not a new plea entered in courts.
The trial showed that Martin could not have made an attempt to try for the gun, via the dummy demonstration.

The media did not edit the 911 call. NBC news alone did. The full record shows him referring to "these punks".

why would anyone feel sorry for a man who is a known racist, who went looking for trouble and murdered a child? oh actually we know why, he killed a black boy and that's more than okay with lots of you.

an unarmed Zimmerman wouldn't have the guts to confront anyone he is a dirty coward

save your sympathy for the victim not the killer

creighton Nobody coild be more disappointed on the verdit than me, but I don't think you can say that Zimmerman was a known racist. He wasn't. What he did (which was not denied by his own defense) is that he racially profiled Martin. Which was wrong.Criminally wrong, in my mind. The kid was going home to watch a play off game with some sweets. He was not out to commit a crime.

What is racist, was the States lack of formal investigation.

Which is why the Federal government will now take over the case.

And on the sympathy for Zimmerman, I sort of get it. He is a chubby losser. I watched him in the court room, formally shaking all members of his defense teams hands, looking lost. He just isn't a man firing on all mental cylanders. It is OUR fault in America that we are willing to arm these dimmer people. And it says that men have failed their themselves. The identity crisis that forces them into confrontation is one of their own making. Its sad that black youth pay the price. And another mother loses their child.

PatPig & JessieMcJessie - here here, glad there are other people on here that see it the way I do and for what it is

creighton - a 'known racist' ? How do you come up with this??!

mixxy are you a lawyer? I am. Believe me when I say that Zimmerman was not acquitted on the basis of SYG and his defense team did not invoke it. It was irrelevant because by the time he was being attacked he was on the ground and could not have retreated anyway.

Also, since when was "punks" a racist term? "Punks" can be of any race. All that Zimmerman did was categorise Martin's behaviour as being similar to that of others who had been seen in the area and who had subsequently turned out to have committed crimes. That's the essence of neighbourhood watch. The fact that Martin was probably not planning to commit a crime when Zimmerman started watching him became irrelevant when he DID commit a crime by beating Zimmerman and threatening to kill him. And why did he do that? Because he had been brought up to be completely paranoid that white folks were out to get him and went on the attack. Why not just talk to Zimmerman and explain that he was on his way home?

When you've got a 'chubby loser', emboldened by a firearm to go out at night playing vigilante, the danger is that any altercation, no matter how trivial, has a good chance of being fatal. If Zimmerman had been tried in a UK court his self-defence plea would probably have been rejected on the grounds that his actions were disproportionate and that unreasonable force was used. Thinking back to the Tony Martin case, arming yourself with a loaded gun automatically makes you an aggressor, not a defender. It's a pity US law is so loaded.

As for race riots, I think this is going to be like Rodney King all over again. People are very angry and I think they have good reason.

Oh my God it was NOT racial !!! WHY are you all presuming Zimmerman was / is a racist?? I just don't get it ?!

My mother is a judge. Are you operating under the Crown or Florida? I am bar certified New York.

I didn't assert he was acquitted under SYG. He was acquitted under the element within SYG that allows for deadly force without an attempt to flee.

"Punks" is not a racist term. I have stated that I didn't think Zimmerman was a racist, but did racially profile. He stated that 'these 'punks always het away with it'. His own defense brought in a neighbor to testify that she had been burgularized by a black recently. It was to lay grounds for reasonable defense.

Zimmerman did m ot identify himself as a neighbourhood watch man. Thus giving no identification of himself, which was clear from the phone call Martin was on at the time. Zimmerman had no powers of detention, regardless. Zimmerman disregarded dispatches instructions to him to NOT FOLLOW.

no you don't, and you probably never will Chrissie

www.theroot.com/multimedia/beyond-trayvon-black-and-unarmed

mixxy I said "Zimmerman....very clearly did not "racially profile" Martin - the media have already accepted that they edited the 911 call to omit the fact that Zimmerman did not volunteer Martin's race; he only stated it when asked to do so."

You replied: "The media did not edit the 911 call. NBC news alone did. The full record shows him referring to "these punks"."

You now say that "Punks" is not a racist term. So why did you mention it in support of your argument that Zimmerman DID racially profile Martin? What you mean is that Zimmerman profiled him as a criminal. It was Martin's clothing and behaviour that gave rise to the suspicion. That is why Zimmerman didn't call 911 and say "there's a black guy acting suspiciously". He said that there was someone acting suspiciously and when asked the race of that person he told the dispatcher that he was black. It is not a crime to suspect someone else of a crime.

On what basis do you conclude that Zimmerman attempted to detain Martin? The evidence accepted by the jury was that Martin initiated the physical contact, unexpectedly so.

The dispatcher gave evidence that when he said to Zimmerman that he did not need him to follow Martin, it was not an instruction it was advice. "We don't need you to do that" not "Do not do that".

Regarding SYG, you said upthread "Zimmerman got off based on SYG, Alexander did not." How dos that square with you now saying "I didn't assert he was acquitted under SYG."?

To answer your question, I am not a US-qualified lawyer, though I do have cause in my job to refer to a lot of US cases and 15 years of legal practice have trained me to understand legal argument. I think we will have to agree to differ about the technicality of how SYG was invoked in the trial.

Even if Zimmerman wasn't acting out of racist motives, I think the reason there will be disturbances is that the population suspects that, if the skin colours were reversed, and a black man had gone out armed and gone on to shot an innocent white kid dead in the street... even if that white kid had kicked off.... the jury would not have acquitted.

And on the sympathy for Zimmerman, I sort of get it. He is a chubby losser

He wasnt chubby when he killed Trayvon Martin.

He put on about 100lb in the run up to the trial.Smart move it would seem.

exactly cogito and it wouldnt have fucking happened in the first place. Black men dont tend to follow white children around on the basis of some fucked up stereotyping

punks is not a racist term in itself. We know full well who Zimmerman was refering to collectively though dont we. You can play as dumb as you like, but Trayvon was murdered for being a black boy.

cogito if the public takes an acquittal based on a thorough and fair trial as an indication that justice would not have been done in another, totally theoretical trial then it is misguided and in my view, wilfully disregarding the facts to its own ends.Perhaps US justice is flawed, but this trial is not evidence for such flaws. The anger of the public should NOT be focussed on George Zimmerman. He has been proven innocent and the public should respect that.

Oh and Martin didn't just "kick off" he beat Zimmerman severely and the Florida law relating to self defense render Zimmerman's act legal. As I said, it is the fact that it was legal for him to defend himself with a gun that should be criticised in this sorry situation.

He has been proven innocent and the public should respect that

NO they shouldnt