Zimmerman found 'not guilty' of Trayvon Martin's murder

[Kveta]

m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23304198

Bloody hell.

How utterly crap for Martin's family and friends :( and how dangerous for race relations in Florida :(

I've posted several links on this and the other thread which included that Zimmerman called the police over 40 times while in that neighbourhood, repeatedly for "suspicious people", all of whom were Black. When discussing burglaries with the police, he repeatedly blamed Black people and Black people alone. The guy obviously has a problem with Black people. He has problems with lots of other people as well (molestation charges o a child, was kicked off of a criminal justice course for being a danger to the community, restraining order from a previous partner, and so on - unsavoury is putting it very mildly), but in this neighbourhood, he repeatedly showed through his interaction with the police that he has an issue with Black people being in his gated community. One of the main points of his defense is that he was right to be suspicious and scared of a young black man walking through his neighborhood. That as a defense is racism itself.

Also, myself and many people in wider protests aren't arguing about mainly Zimmerman's racism. It's the racism that has been around this entire case that we are protesting. The fact this trial has been about Trayvon's worthiness rather than Zimmerman's actions from the beginning. He's repeated called a thug and blamed for his death for actions that [http://seetobe.tumblr.com/post/55772548984/unapologetically-black others would call "being a teenager"]] and White celebrity teens have people defending them and called normal for the exact same thing. People put up false photos of Black men who look nothing like him to try to rile up more hate on what a thug and danger he was. Zimmerman said that Trayvon caused his alarm by both walking too fast and too slow (what rate should a young man walk to avoid being suspiscious?) . There is nothing Trayvon could have done right in this situation. Zimmerman followed him four minutes. In car and by foot when Trayvon went down a pedestrian path to get rid of him. No one, not even the defense, said Zimmerman was following him out of kindness. The prosecution never argued that Zimmerman should have not seen him as a threat for even a moment (just that Trayvon wasn't enough of a threat to kill). The prosecution openly mocks it's own witness that it chose to not prepare, never mentioning that her speech was down to a medical condition and actively contributed to people thinking she was just uneducated (regardless that she's doing very well in school and speaks 3 languages, English being her 3rd). People still tear both of them apart, never seeing them as having the the same feelings and humanity. Never in the case or the mass media was Trayvon's feeling considered relevant, only Zimmerman's feelings of fear or hate are debated. Not the feelings of a 17 year old who only wanted to get home.

The entire case was built on racism, both defense and prosecution (though the latter at least is being investigated for it). The entire legal system is built on it, most systems are built upon the structures of oppression and the maintaining of the current power structures. For some this is daily life, it is a blessing to be able to ignore it and need to find proof.

others would call "being a teenager"

Now that's interesting, LittleSporks. As I said, I'm concentrating here on the incident itself and actual proof, but on that subject the bit about "When discussing burglaries with the police, he repeatedly blamed Black people and Black people alone" seems very relevant

Please could you send me a link/reference to identify how that came to be known?

Because he called the police, repeatedly, as "a representative of the neighbourhood watch", and they were released by the police to the media (the judge dismissed these records). There are a lot of articles but few have all of them together if that makes sense. This one was shortly after the first police release, weeks after the shooting but there are many more out there (police were very drip feed about it), I think there is a record of all the calls out there, I linked to other ones in some of my posts on this and the other thread I believe.

there was a lot of information, wasnt there sporks, when it happened; which is why it is so unfathomable that he got away with it. Why was this information not taken into consideration at the trial?

The judge dismissed the records, except for the call about Trayvon itself, if I recall correctly. She dismissed a lot, along with the prosecution just being abysmal in it's own right practically handing the case over. Using the system to creating the desired result, no need for justice and truth and equality. Just the results and jokes (defense opening with jokes at a murder trial, still have a bad taste at that).

Thanks for that link, LittleSporks, and yes I can quite see that the phone records would be scattered about. I also see that most of the call-ins appear to have been about black lads, though I haven't yet read that he made a big deal of their race, as he didn't with Trevayon according to the records

I suppose what we need to know is whether there's any evidence that he saw white lads acting suspiciously and failed to call those in. Obviously that really would show bias, so do we know if there's any such evidence?

interesting blog with interesting photos.
fwiw i see Miley as a woman now not a minor and nor do i see Justin as a teen either.
nor do i think of either of them 'going through a phase' but that's another thread.

it's a difficult one because whilst i don't believe for a second that white victims' families would be having to defend themselves against slurs on their children's reputations, as the Martins have had to with the speculation on and defamation of Trayvon, I do believe however that white victims who were 'appropriating black culture' * would be treated in the same way.

Whether that is because where I am from the police suffer from institutionalised racism (eg driving while black) or whether it is borne out from prejudice against hoodies and teenagers per se I do not know.
What I do know is white girls with bling,tats etc are often deemed by media to be chavs and white boys with hoodies,grills,bling etc are deemed to be 'wangstas'.

there is prejudice against street culture/rapper culture full stop due to
the majority of contemporary rappers being affiliated at least lyrically with guns, gangs, drugs, misogyny, homohobia, materialism and violence.**

*(bloggers' phrase not mine as I do not think flicking the vs, ganja or wearing a grill or hoodie as defining black culture helps with people's perceptions...because the former are often appropriated by hiphop/gangstas this helps perpetuate the myth: hoodies=gangsta=street crime)

**of course we could discuss the relative merits of biggie smalls vs will smith or eminem vs macklemore but that's a whole other thread....

How could there be any such 'evidence' if he never called them in?

Because I think it's quite pathetic really that a lot of you are psyco-analysing people, whom you don't know, or in fact know what their beliefs are, merely because they hold different opinions! I don't know how many times I need to state this. The 'pettiness' lies with the posters who cannot accept that others hold alternative views

The opinions are a reflection of their beliefs. It really is that clear. Psychoanalytical skills are not needed.

I find it worrying that when it comes to a white child, people's thoughts immediately spring to vulnerability and the threat other people might pose to them. And when it comes to a black child, a good many people immediately think of the threat they might pose, or be perceived as posing, to other people

That is a brilliant example of subconscious racism.

How could there be any such 'evidence' if he never called them in?

Quite easily, for the scenario I mentioned. A householder could have mentioned to him a dubious-looking white person they'd seen hanging around, then wanted to know what he'd done about it. This happens to NW people all the time - I know, I've been one - and any reluctance to report purely on the grounds of race would become obvious very quickly

Anyway, to return to my original point, I'm still looking for actual proof that Trevayon was killed because he was black. Since this has been clearly stated as a fact rather than an opinion, I assume it can be substantiated?

Fucking hell, have you been reading peoples posts? and the brilliant links Sporks has provided?

Yes, there is evidence, the entire phone call records have been released. From what I've read, those were his main complaints, most of the rest were inanimate objects out of place (garage doors not down was a big one I recall - Housing association, neighbourhood watch, vigilante all in one).

The information is all out there, I've given enough links on it both on this thread and the other thread and -- and I think I've given anyone really interested in finding the evidence a good enough head start. I enjoy helping people find information, not spoonfeeding people. I've been working in this area long enough to know that calls for evidence are used just as often to antagonise people as it is for actual interest. For some there is never enough evidence to prove an individual act was down to thinking based on a system of power and oppression, always another small detail that needs more. That that is actually the standard in our societies, racism is the default our societies are built, we should need evidence that it wasn't. But that's the system - always give the benefit of the doubt to the oppressors, can't have those systems being challenged or that benefit ever going to oppressors and victims of the systems. Might actually make some progress.

As I've said dozens of time, and I'll say it again, I don't care if he killed him out of hate or fear, the defense that he was right to be fearful of and follow a young black man for being a young black man in a gated community and that is a racist defense. I'm not sure why I need more evidence when he's said it from day one, his defense said it through the trial, and afterwards calls the killing of Trayvon was God's Plan and he would do no different. Seriously, if you see your milkshake had at least 10% crap in it, it would be an obvious problem, you don't go checking the rest to make sure it's equally crappy. I'm done giving information one way that avoids that point.

BCastle: Cyrus is now, but the stuff in the pictures she was doing when she was 17 (noticeable as she looks quite different now) as was Bieber (not as noticeable, but it's only two years ago for him) and everyone defended it as "normal teen stuff". Trayvon did the exact same thing, and he's treated like thug, treated like he deserved to die for doing what those celebs did at the same age and were defended for.

And, just to clear up that blog, it isn't the Vs or grills or hoodie's that are cultural appropriation but their music itself. Bieber and Cyrus's fortunes are based on music originated by Black artists that were cleaned up and now sold by White artists to the mainstream and everyone praises them and ignores where it comes. Macklemore is a another fantastic example - everyone calls him a great artist, calling his the first hip-hop artists to bring up gay rights and equality completely ignoring the LGBT Black hiphop artists's experiences and work for decades, even Kanye (performing in a skirt) and so many others have been challenging the binary and things for years, totally ignored by the mainstream until a White face comes along then are treated like they never existed. No, they praise the guy who thought he was gay in third grade because he could draw (while using horrible slurs in his music, but it's fine, he's an ally ) when there are actual experiences in hip-hop from LGBT perspective around for years because he's got the right face and it feeds into this idea what White people are so much more progressive and the Black community is homophobic (see the California same-sex marriage debate when even people like Wil Wheaton were blaming the Black community on its failure). The grills, the hoodies, that's just veneer, something else that originated in Black communities that are only okay and "normal" on White people but promote crime and gang culture in the Black community.

It's all the same thing - the systems (media) gets the results it wants by promoting what it thinks it's best and trying to erase the rest. Elvis's moves and style came from Black artists, but they've faded for most into obscurity while he'd taken their fame. It's all a part of the systems where racism is the standard.

I suppose what we need to know is whether there's any evidence that he saw white lads acting suspiciously and failed to call those in. Obviously that really would show bias, so do we know if there's any such evidence

Yes, there is a 3 page list of the names of white teenagers that have loitered in the gated community over the last year, that Zimmerman saw and didnt think were suspicious and didnt phone the police about

that is the joy of racism...so hard to prove beyond doubt huh

the majority of contemporary rappers being affiliated at least lyrically with guns, gangs, drugs, misogyny, homohobia, materialism and violence

this is bollocks BTW. I acknowledge you said it is quoted from a blog, but the majority of contemporary rappers dissociate from guns/gangs/misogyny etc

WHILST mainstream pop music is generally escalating it

Since this has been clearly stated as a fact rather than an opinion, I assume it can be substantiated?

I enjoy helping people find information, not spoonfeeding people. I've been working in this area long enough to know that calls for evidence are used just as often to antagonise people as it is for actual interest

I'll take that as a "no," then ...

Interesting to read that even asking for proof is now wrong, and is just a another symptom of "the racist system" The pity of it, for me, is that your heart's probably in the right place and like many of us you do honestly want to see racism stamped out - but these wild generalisations simply destroy any credibility you might have had among sensible people

Tired of all the rants and obscenities, I shall bow out now

Zimmerman racially profiled Martin.

Racial profiling is a form of racism

On this occasion it led to the death of a young innocent boy.

So although this may not be a kkk type of racist attack, it is clear that an act of racism was the catalyst for Martin's death.

None of this would have happened if Zimmerman hadn't assumed because Martin was black he must be up to no good.

Jacqueline - You say 'racially profiled', therefore when he was ASKED for Martin's colour / race, what did you want him to do, lie?? I don't get it?! I'm not tryna be funny now either, I genuinely don't get why some posters have an issue with the fact Zimmerman merely answered the operators question ? ? ?

Puzzled

LSBSpork links led me to this one www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/22/george-zimmerman-s-history-of-911-calls-a-complete-log.html
which does make it clear that the majority of his 'suspects' were black.
I totted them up:

Out of 46 calls over an 8 year period

alarms 2
black 'suspects' 6
dogs 4
hispanic 'suspects' 1
noise 4
open door 6
other 5
personal 4
pothole 2
vehicles 8
white 1 (same call as hispanic)
woman 1

= 43 calls, the other 3 were re same suspect or incident

although the onus had been placed by media on months rather than years it is clear that he had been suspicious of black people irrespective of attire in the preceding months.

Which also puts paid to me thinking he was just anti-hoody or anti-teen as two so-called suspects were black males in their 20s 30s and one was a black child 7-9 years.

The irony of Zimmerman's family being fretful over vigilante action...

I really can't get over that part. (Obviously I don't want anyone to run at him with an axe or anything, but seriously, what an insensitive and ill-thought out comment to make)

Answering a question when asked is not racial profiling.

Zimmerman decided that Martin was up to no good purely because he was black. At the trial the defence team had one of the neighbours state very clearly that she had been broken into by a black youth. They used this to try and prove that Zimmerman had a good reason to be suspicious of Martin (he's black, he's a youth, he's guilty!). However, all it actually does is prove that Zimmerman stalked Martin and called the police to report Martin for suspicious behaviour based on nothing other than the fact he was black. This is racial profiling.

The racial profiling obviously happened before Zimmerman called the police but was clearly the catalyst for the whole devastating situation.

Again, I'm really not tryna be funny or obnoxious here, but maybe all of the previous crimes Z had encountered were carried out by black males and therefore in this case you would expect him to be over-cautious...

Chrissie that is exactly what racial profiling is.

Definition -

ra·cial pro·fil·ing

Noun

The practice of substituting skin colour for evidence as grounds for suspicion.

Regarding rap culture LSBSpork I had not heard of 'Homo hop' (not my phrase) BUT I am glad it exists and am glad to be educated
I agree that many music genres stem from black music originally but feel that music is seen to be 'stolen' without credit rather than evolving with credit to its roots.
Elvis's Hound dog btw was written by two white jewish men as it happens but that's by the by, I take your point.
Macklemore incidentally uses the word 'faggot' in a critique of that kind of lazy homophobic lyric

Call each other f*ggots behind the keys of a message board
A word rooted in hate, yet our genre still ignores it

He also has a song all about his 'white privilege'

The face of hip hop has changed a lot since Eminem
And if he?s taking away black artists? profits I look just like him
Claimed a culture that wasn?t mine

The guy is a talented rapper nonetheless and I think that anyone thinking he shouldn't rap because of his skin colour or talk about homophobia because he's straight are also guilty of prejudice.
It is a shame he is a pin-up boy for highlighting issues like homophobia, consumerism and drugs when, as you say, there are others out there who haven't had his success yet or who are underground but that doesn't mean he lacks credibility.

As for my understanding of the blog I do not disagree that many many teens (I used to teach lots of them, all creeds and cultures in inner-city schools) often in a bid to be cool smoke, flick me! the vs and wear popular branded clothes and sneakers and this is normal...but I don't concede that these 'veneers' are only judged when black teenagers do/wear them. If the blog referred to appropriating music and the discrepancy between reactions to white teen idols' images/musical output and black artists' equivalents then it isn't clear.

Case in point - conservatives got arsey when Miley went all racy in a bid to rid herself of the Disney label. What kind of role model etc
Equally arsey when Rihanna went on about S+M. What kind of role model etc You get Won't somebody think of the children? all the time.
Judging people on appearance especially women is what certain media thrive on.

As to equating gangsta rap with gun culture that was me boomba not a blogger and although I stand by it I probably should not have used the word 'contemporary' considering i am an old bint as I am aware that most rappers now have moved on from their debut lyrics and as you say, distance themselves from gang culture now.
I was struggling to think of a contemporary rap artist who didn't have any of the aforementioned (guns, drugs, hoes etc) somewhere in their body of work even if it was earlier. Closest I could get to was Dizzee Rascal or Nas and even they have some.

Please educate me as to why this is bollocks (not a challenge, merely curious - as I say I like to be enlightened and love hearing new stuff)
so examples of contemporary rappers who have moved away from such lyrics and do not write problematic lyrics would be welcome.
Also examples of mainstream pop acts escalating guns/gangs/misogyny would be interesting. Can only think of the promotion of dv in Rihanna duetting with Enimem about liking the way it hurts or Pink talking about tempestuous relationships as a fire where you're gonna get burnt but am happy to hear of more...