Palestinian rocket killed bbc journalist's baby in Gaza

[Kungfutea]

www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/12/palestinian-rocket-killed-baby-gaza

I thought this may be of interest considering how much exposure the original story (blaming Israel) got.

I don't know. It's a question many countries are struggling with. I'm in the us and it's a hot debate here right now - but only if us citizens can be assassinated!

In my mind its not as (quote from en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_terrorism) there is neither an academic nor an international legal consensus regarding the definition of the term "terrorism". Various legal systems and government agencies use different definitions of "terrorism". Moreover, the international community has been slow to formulate a universally agreed upon, legally binding definition of this crime. These difficulties arise from the fact that the term "terrorism" is politically and emotionally charged .....

Basically it means that any government can call anyone a terrorist and assasinate them, dont get me wrong - i am not saying al mabhouh or sharafkandi were saints or murderers just questioning if assassinating them is ok and if its ok then what goes around comes around.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_terrorism

Exactly. A question many countries struggle with and certainly not one which proves the point you were unsuccessfully trying to make that Israel and Iran are the same.

Also funny that you were so disparaging about Wikipedia up thread and all of a sudden it's your best friend. I think we need to add inconsistent to your list of qualities.

Can we agree that both Iran and Israel engage in assassination of people they deem as terrorists in foreign countries?

Oh, I still want to hear about the 'persecution' of Israeli journalist amira hass compared with Iranian persecution of journalists. I read an article by amira hass in haaretz yesterday so I was wondering about this apparent persecution.

Can we agree that Israel, Iran and the USA plus many other countries may assassinate people they deem terrorists on foreign soil (except in the case of Israel and USA they really are likely to be terrorists and not just political opponents and that Iran also kills gays, political opponents, adulterers etc on its own soil as well)?

Can we also agree that you were intellectually dishonest by intentionally leaving out key information when you copied and pasted from Wikipedia?

And I still want to hear more about the Israeli conspiracy to take videos off YouTube. Youve gone strangely quiet on that one. Guess you want us to forget it, like you want us to forget your racism, intellectual dishonesty, inaccuracies and rudeness.

Why? As soon as we get somewhere interesting you'd only want to change topics again or go back to anti-semitic

We can go back to Hass and why she keeps popping up in Israeli prisons but that for later when we compare Iran vs Israel vs persecution of Jounalists.

No, you mentioned these things and then forget about them, not me.

Amira hass is not persecuted. A friend of my husband is a famous Israeli journalist, very left wing. He's not persecuted. You see, Mondrian, you swallow hook line and sinker all the bilge fed to you by the anti Israel websites. Unlike you, I have lived in Israel and have friends who are journalists. Why don't you read a little bit how journalists are treated in Iran? There's fair criticism of Israel and then there's just the hate. This is hate.

What about the YouTube conspiracy? Still no evidence?

Do i take it you dont want to discuss assassinations carried out by Israel and Iran then?

It's a bit hard when someone is intellectually dishonest :(

Anyway, I'd rather discuss targeted assassinations carried out by the us and other democracies as it has more relevance for Israel.

Why not start a new thread for that, i'd like to discuss those too. I am flattered that you think of me as an intellectual, even if its a dishonest one.

Ok have to go away and run some errands ... BTW I am a big fan of cooking and always looking for new finds, quite fascinated by Jewish cuisine due to its ethnic diversity. I have many Jewish friends so have tasted those of arabic/persian/east european variety but really keen to try south american, ethiopian and fusion and of course Mizrahi (hoping that its as good as Mizrahi music) ... any chance of recipe from either of these ethnic cuisines?

Why don't you start a new thread then? You're the one who wants to discuss Iran (even though you also think it slanderous to do so). You can then discuss your recipes at the same time.

Having intellectual dishonesty and being a dishonest intellectual are two different things. You can, of course, be both, but having intellectual dishonesty does not mean that you are, ipso facto, an intellectual however much you may wish to be one or to present yourself as one.

Intellectual dishonesty refers to intentionally committed fallacies and omissions in debates and reasoning.

Which is exactly what you did when you copied and pasted from Wikipedia. You didn't paraphrase. You copied and pasted, intentionally omitting the bits which didn't quite fit the point you were trying to make.

And just because some of your best friends are Jewish, doesn't mean you aren't racist . Wondered why you felt the need to mention your 'many Jewish friends'

You STILL haven't explained how you determined which posters were Jewish and which weren't. We've already agreed that only one poster stated her religion. So, let's clear this up before we move on. If you give me a truthful reason or at least acknowledge your racist assumptions and apologize then I won't need to go back to it.

But your refusal to do so followed by your supercilious reference to your faith in your moral compass (implying that mine is somewhat lacking) means that I can't just let this go. Sorry, it won't just disappear until you provide a truthful explanation (which of course you can't, hence the lies about people telling you when, in fact, only one poster did) or apologize.

Galvanise

You might find this link interesting
Maysara NOT cuffed to bed

Kungfu, you are making quite a few assumptions about me now arent you. I do not visit anti - israel sites. I have only linked bbc and guardian articles mostly.

The skin graft thing - it was mentioned in the news article that i linked.

You seem to answer claims by mentioning US and UK. It doesnt justify what Israel does. UK and US actions are a different thread, and you would find that i would be quite vocal about those too.

I find israeli govenemnts actions exceptionally disgusting as they have always killed and degraded. Skin grafting was one example. Apartheid is another. Treating turkish diplomat the way they did was shameful. What gives israel the right to treat people badly and degrade?

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8607795.stm

Assassinations in dubai and forgery of passports of other countries do not win you friends.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/7258631/British-threat-to-Israel-over-Dubai-Hamas-assassination.html

Your government is decpetive and oppressive, with a huge appetite for killing and war.

Justifying israel's actions the way you do, is not going to win anyone over.

I also am finding it offensive and distasteful how you keep calling another poster racist. You need to seriously stop that now and stop derailing. I am seriously considering leaving this thread as i cannot be bothered to listen to you go on and on about this. It is tedious and off-topic.

Your attempts and justifying israels actions do not make it acceptable. It is the one country that has broken the most UN resolutions in history. So it deserves its reputation as a threat to peace.

That's simply not true that the article you linked to mentioned skin grafts, certainly not from Palestinians to IDF soldiers.

That's all your own imagination.

It's not justified criticism of Israel. It's your obsession with Israel and disproportionate criticism.

OMG!! A 64 year old man with terminal cancer DIED!! You can blame Israel for a lot but you can't blame them for a man with terminal cancer dying (in one of the best hospitals in Israel while receiving chemotherapy).

And as for the UN resolutions - exactly my point! Obsession with Israel. Every year, the arab block in the GA gets resolutions passed against Israel. i won't deny that there are human rights abuses in Israel, of course there are and that's not OK - but nothing on the scale of what goes on in Egypt, Lebanon, Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Syria, Turkey, North Korea, Sudan, China, Russia etc etc etc. So why all the resolutions against Israel? Obsessing over Israel has not stopped Assad?s tanks from flattening entire communities. On the contrary, it has only distracted attention from his crimes.

Why on earth do the Palestinians have a whole UN agency devoted to them (UNRWA)? NO OTHER refugee group has had such a privilege, including others fleeing in far more desparate circumstances. In fact, who helped the 850,000 JEWISH refugees expelled from ARAB countries? They're conveniently forgotten. (I'm quoting now from Ron Prosor) Compare and contrast with the Arab World?s role in maintaining the Palestinians as refugees for more than six decades. Jews from Arab countries came to refugee camps in Israel, which eventually gave birth to thriving towns and cities. Refugee camps in Arab Countries gave birth to more Palestinian refugees. Israel welcomed its Jewish refugees with citizenship and unlocked their vast potential. As they rose to the highest levels of society, our refugees lifted the State of Israel to new heights.

Obviously I'm not going to win YOU over, you came on to this thread with your mind made up from the very start. You haven't answered any of MY questions, of course not!

Indeed, you still haven't explained your opening remark: why my thoughts, views and feelings are propaganda but yours aren't? Double standard much?

You seem to answer claims by mentioning US and UK. It doesnt justify what Israel does. UK and US actions are a different thread, and you would find that i would be quite vocal about those too.

Not a justification, certainly not. But an unfortunate fact of life that all countries faced with conflict do such things. In fact, most do a lot worse than Israel.

As I said, I'm talking about DISPROPORTIONATE criticism, vilification and demonisation of Israel vs beatification of the Palestinians. I'm afraid, my dear Galvanise, that the world is a much more complex place.

There is no apartheid in Israel. As i've mentioned before (sorry to repeat myself but you do keep parroting the same catchphrases) when I worked in isrsel, in the public sector, my boss was a Muslim Palestinian Israeli. When I studied at the university, one of my lecturers was a Muslim Palestinian Israeli. When my daughter was born, the obstetrician who took care of me was a Muslim Palestinian israeli. In fact the head of the govt run hopsital for the western galilee in nahariya is also a muslim palestinian isrseli. Israel is not an apartheid state.

Unfortunately, I'd agree that moving the settlers to the WB where they have full civil rights while the Palestinians are under martial law is not right. I'd like to see the settlements dismantled and removed. But apartheid specifically refers to race and the situation in the WB is based on nationality so I think the use of the word apartheid is deliberately inflamatory (well, there's a surprise!). I know mondrian is a real stickler for the correct use of vocabulary.

I also am finding it offensive and distasteful how you keep calling another poster racist. .

Maybe for you but I found what this poster said to be extremely offensive and distasteful - and racist. Sorry you don't agree but, no, I won't stop. It WAS racist. Imagine if I had said to Mondrian 'Only the Muslim posters agree with you' - assuming that only Muslims could be anti-Israel. Exactly the same thing here.

Just in case you've forgotten what she said:
To prove my point out of the previous 94 postings on this thread you have managed to engage very few now Jewish posters (3-4) who have stayed the course, and even then they are posting out of frustration (like me) and not interest ... Doesn't that tell you anything?

How did she know who was Jewish and who wasn't when only one poster said? All I'm asking for is a truthful explanation (or an apology).