Palestinian rocket killed bbc journalist's baby in Gaza

[Kungfutea]

www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/12/palestinian-rocket-killed-baby-gaza

I thought this may be of interest considering how much exposure the original story (blaming Israel) got.

[wintertimeisfun]

i think you make a clear interesting well put out read kungfutea but you are wasting your time on MN, you shouldn't bother, closed ears n' all that. they won't listen to any part of what you say. myself, i am in the middle, can see right and wrong on both sides but alot of MN's won't differ from their orignal opinion, very closed off

[Kungfutea]

Thanks bessie.

It was getting boring anyway because they'd just parrot the same things that the rabid anti Israeli movement fed them without any attempt to understand what I was saying and ive wasted too much time on this already.

I noticed that galvanise didn't condemn terrorist attacks on Israeli civilians and just attacked you for even asking, she probably feels that they're justified!

Hope to see you around!

[Bessie123]

galvanise I won't bother reading your rants in any detail or responding to them because I can see you are not able to answer my very simple question and I can't be arsed

kungfutea seriously, don't waste your time on these losers, they don't want to debate but just bully, like Hamas and Hezbollah, their heroes.

If they seriously can't understand Israel's position in that region or your very clear arguments then there is absolutely no point in you bothering. I'm not hanging with these dumb asses any more but hope to bump in to you on another thread

[Kungfutea]

Calling Israel a 'criminal regime' is anti Israel rabidness par excellence.

The unholy alliance between extremist muslims (which Britain is famous for a la lord Ahmed) and loony left (which Britain is also famous for a la ken livingstone) have led to this unhealthy situation.

Being in America is like a breath of fresh air.

[Kungfutea]

And I agree that hamas absolutely treats children in a despicable manner, using their own kids as human shields and suicide bombers :( and intentionally firing missiles at Israeli kindergartens and schools :(

[Kungfutea]

Oh a cheerleader :) better be careful because mondrian doesn't approve of those.

Actually this thread has been very eye opening for me. It confirmed what everyone has been saying about rabid anti-Israeliness in the uk :(

Makes me quite glad I don't live there anymore.

[Spru]

This thread was an eye opener for me too. after reading through it all, i am glad that nobody is now willing to engage the OP on her rabid defending of a criminal regime which treats children in such a despicable manner.

Am also glad that OP started this thread as it horrendously back fired on her, exposing her support for war loving and nuclear weapon piling. the OP has done the disgusting thing of even attempting to justify the vile treatment of children.

The thread also served to inform me of the violation of humanity that israel is. And then op tried continuously to twist points of other posters despite explanation and the she finally turned on brits and threw in a bit of 9/11 for good measure. Lovely sentiments that you have OP.

Thank you for the posters who posted information and links of the Israeli horror show that still goes on in this day and age.

Goodbye OP - all voices of reason have already left. You and bessie123 can now party on.

[Kungfutea]

I'm very glad israel has nuclear weapons.

Too bad you're leaving this thread mondrian without explaining why you made racist comments or providing any evidence of an Israeli YouTube conspiracy.

[Mondrian]

There is another topic that Israel does not like to talk about and that's their nuclear bombs estimated at somewhere between 75 - 400 warheads with ballistic missile capability. Israel is the only Mideast country with a nuclear arsena. They together with USA have continuously resisted discussing Middle East nuclear weapon free zone (MENWFZ) initially proposed by Egypt and Iran in 1974 - In December 2012, the entire United Nations voted 176-6 for Israel to disclose its clandestine nuclear program and join the NPT. Dissenting votes were Israel, America, Canada, the Marshall Islands, Micronesia and Palau. Israel scorned the United Nations, saying the UN "has lost all its credibility regarding Israel with these types of routine votes that are ensured passage by an automatic majority and which single out Israel". (Now you know where OP gets ger lingo from)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East_nuclear_weapon_free_zone
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Israel

So here we are in 2013, nearly 40 yrs later with no movement on the initial proposal by Egypt & Iran with Israel and USA stalling every proposal and .................

I have said all that I wanted to say on this thread, I am sure OP would want to have the last word on this thread and follow up with a barrage of postings to bury the facts as all who suffer from Confirmation bias do. So will leave the thread so that she can fulfill her prophecy.

[Mondrian]

I see you're all out!

[Mondrian]

Today's children are tomorrows adults.

[Kungfutea]

Still no explanation for your racist comments Mondrian?

Or evidence of YouTube conspiracy?

[Kungfutea]

Actually gazans are highly educated, more than neighbouring Egypt, for example. Israel isn't responsible for overcrowding in gazan classrooms! We all know the reason for that!

I've been to many countries with far worse education systems and far less education but they don't send 14 year olds to blow themselves up.

I don't think it's about the children's hearts and minds, it's about the adults who exploit and manipulate them - and send them off to become shahid.

[Mondrian]

Ok let's talk about children and being brought up in a state of siege and the reality of it for kids who are brought up in a 1.5 million prison with diminishing access to education, overcrowding to the extent that schools have to operate a shift system on top of overcrowded classes with declining achievements and that was before the Gaza invasion & bombing which resulted in damage to infrastructure, displacement and malnourishment. What do you expect to be the output of such an educational system ... Great thinkers, scientists, doctors, teachers, peace activists?
imeu.net/news/article0017067.shtml

Why can't you see that Israel is directly responsible for shaping the minds and hearts of Palestinian children and the next generation of Palestinians ... Cycle of perpetual violence.

[Mondrian]

You are missing the point all together, as far as I am aware not a single person on this thread (at least since I started posting on it) has promoted or defended the actions of the Palestinian regime or their atrocities so it's not a case of Israel vs Palestine as you keep saying ... Fact is no one has said anything nice about Abbas, Fatah or Hamas or defended them in any way. However Israel has all the guns, the finances, the land, the financial & political backing ... They have all the power and therefore the onus is on them to take concrete steps towards peace ... not just empty words.

Respect for basic human rights and an adherence to UN resolutions would be a good start as would a reduction in no of settlements, restraint and proportionate response are actions associated with peace not a fatality ratio of 6:1 and bombing of schools and hospitals. those types of positive actions would send clear signals to the world that Israel is indeed leading the way to peace and certainly provide people like you with some ammunition in pro-peace discussions but are they interested .... No. Instead they engage in a PR war, put pressure on all who dare to speak against this barbarity by branding them anti-semitic and the sad fact is that I understand you and those like you, you have nothing to say, no ammunition to respond with so your only choice is to beat all who speak up on the head with your anti-semitic gun cause that's all you got to work with.

[Kungfutea]

Some of the sad reality regarding Palestinians minors who are detained in Israel.

What Galvanise has failed to realise or even recognise is that there are often two sides to any story. While Israel may not do all it can to protect Palestinian minors, the Palestinian terror organizations seem to have no compunction in using them in terror attacks.

another 14 year old potential suicide attack

11 year old failed suicide attach

15 year old recruited as suicide bomber

15 year old tried to detonate 5 bombs

15 and 16 year olds with pipe bombs

And there are plenty of 16 and 17 year old suicide bombers such as (this is just a sample):

16-year-old Ayat al-Akhras in Jerusalem in March 2002; 17-year-old Issa Abedrabbu Ibrahim Badir in Rishon Lezion in May 2002; 16-year-old Sabih Abu al-Saoud in March 2003,17-year-old Islam Qteishat in Rosh Ha?ayin in August 2003, 17-year-old Safwat Abdel Rahman in Tel-Aviv in January 2002, 17-year-old Hamza Aref Samudi near Mejiddo junction in June 2002; 17-year-old Iyad al-Masri in January 2004, 17-year-old Khamis Gerwan near Ariel.

Then you wonder why Israel detains minors???

[Kungfutea]

I've got to say that this made me laugh a bit

You are far too good to be seen as openly racist though.....especially since you have volunteered with a NGO.

So I haven't been openly racist (because I'm that good!) but yet you have decided I am racist. Because all Israelis must be racist! It's in our blood. We can't help it!!

[Kungfutea]

Bessie didn't say ALL palestinians. Of course not, there are many moderate palestinians who don't like Israeli dying either (you just don't hear them all that much).

I can show you many clips from Israeli TV showing Palestinians celebrating each time Israeli civilians die but you wouldn't believe them.

so here's Palestinians celebrating 9/11

If they celebrate Americans dying like that, imagine the unrestrained joy when it's Israelis.

[Kungfutea]

Actually, regarding the OP, I'm afraid my point was that it was stated as fact that it was Israel when, in fact, it was more than likely the Palestinians.

The same applies for Mohammed Al Dura

As I said earlier, either way it's still a tragedy.

[Kungfutea]

And calling Israel a rogue state is exactly why you are an rabid anti-Israel fanatic.

[Kungfutea]

Here's what you said

There may be no proof over claims about haiti organ harvesting, but its not a million miles away from another thruth is it. organ harvesting without permission from israelis and also palestinians, is not completely new to israel is it. Grafting palestinan skin onto israeli soldiers sounds delightful doesnt it - forget any sort of compass for morality.

So what exactly did you mean when you said there may be no proof of Haiti organ harvesting but it's not a million miles away from the truth?

That sounds awfully like you're trying to suggest that there might be something in the blood libel Haiti organ conspiracy.

[Galvanise]

Kungfu, you are deluded if you think i mentioned the organ harvesting to lend credence to the haiti scandal. I was aware of neither before you enlightened me. I was actually highlighting an actual fact, but you are the one going on and on about about conspiracy theories. I never said that haiti actually happened - you are now doing your usual thing of accusing and derailing. Its getting tedious.

I am however, so much more aware of the devious and manipulative tactics used by your government. I am absolutely horrified by israel justifying terrorising palestinian children in the name of security. the only country in the world that routinely subjects children to military courts. very big and strong of them

Unfortunately i cannot continue with this thread as it is full of derailing and i cannot bear to look up any more acts of atrocities or humiliation that israel is committing against people that cannot match its military might. I am really sad to say that their atrocities will not stop any time soon. However, i still thank you op, for exposing the number of crimes israel has committed against humanity - not your intention, i am sure, but as they say.....truth does come out - eventually.

Op, you came on here to say that look at those palestinians - killed their own baby and blamed Israel. It is still just an allegation and not a fact. Even if it is proved correct,is that really something to be so pleased about?

There are so many israeli blaming palestinians stories too (lets never forget tom hurndall) that were equally untrue. The difference is: the rogue state of israel is so involved in cover-ups. I just remembered operation cyanide - another war mongering devious act by israel. The list is endless.

Wouldnt it be interesting to have israeli individuals up for war crimes if palestine did become a state? Do you see that happening? Do you see accountability for war crimes? After all, UN has stated that both sides committed war crimes - or do you feel that hamas deserve harsher punishment than israel for the same crime?

Bessie: israel is being very naughty and acting very badly - a bit like a bully. Thats not nice is it. Would you ask a bully what great things he/she does? Would that make him good or still a bully?

Lets ask which country has violated the most united nation resolutions - resulting in becoming a threat to peace? Is it iran, is it north korea, is anyone on the 'axis of evil?' Answers on a post card.

I am out.

[Kungfutea]

I remember this case of the 14 year old suicide bomber, begging the soldiers to help him take his suicide belt off, I was in Israel at the time :(

I think Israel should do a better job of protecting minors and we shouldn't bloody well be there - but this is not leafy surrey.

[Kungfutea]

Although, regarding children, I hope you are equally vociferous in your condemnation of hamas using children as human shields!!!

[Kungfutea]

The thing is, Galvanise, that a lot of things you listed I also think Israel should stop. I'd dispute whether it all happens like you say it does but some things do certainly happen sometimes and I've said throughout this thread that these things aren't OK.

Like I said, there's justified criticism and I'm absolutely fine with that. Israel is a democracy and much of that criticism comes from within Israel.

The reason I think you're an extremist, from what you've demonstrated on this thread, is that

a) you state that Israel is too vile for the Palestinians to make peace with. Which means you think that they should keep fighting until there is no Israel. That's extreme. Moderates believe you should talk to and make peace wiht your enemies. I think hamas is vile. I'd still talk to them and make peace with them.

b) you haven't demonstrated any capacity for understanding that the situation isn't Israel =bad, Palestinains = good. You may sympathise with the Palestinian cause but still demonstrate some understanding that the Israelis have valid fears and concerns and certainly demonstrate some awareness that far worse things happen elsewhere (eg getting angry because a convicted attempted murderer with terminal cancer dies of cancer when receiving treatment in one of the best hospitals in Israel)

c) you believe in (or at least support) outlandish conspiracy theories about Israel

d) from the start you didn't listen to me and just said what I have to say is propaganda, lies etc. I could have done that about the Palestinians but I didn't. When you made what I considered a valid point, I acknowledged as such.