Woman raped after getting kicked off bus at 3am

[joben]

Is this just a another shit example of the selfish society? Could the bus driver or one of the other passengers not just given her the 20p she needed for her fare?

news.sky.com/home/uk-news/article/16243388

Yes I am going to be holier than thou about the idea that in a society people should help each other when they need it, especially if the help is at minimal cost to the helper (20p in this case).

Good point, Boney, they are privately owned. But they should not be given licences to transport the public unless they can demonstrate policies that do not put members of teh public at risk. They make money from the public and they have a duty of care to the public - and if someone pleads for 8 minutes for the sake of 20p, then in my opinion, the bus company and driver are in the wrong.

BBJ

"claig
"Any public company and its employess, in particular, should be duty bound to do everything in their power to protect people in vulnerable positions."

I don't know of any public transport companies that arn't privately owned."

I have posted repeatedly on this thread that I am pretty sure that all bus companied have (have to have?) a policy like this one from aviva, that I also posted upthread:

""If in special circumstances you are unable to pay for your intended journey, the driver will at their discretion accept you for travel only if your journey is deemed necessary and if you are able to give details of your name and address with some supporting identification to the satisfaction of the driver. Vulnerable customers, children under 16 and people who in the opinion of the driver are in distress and unable to pay their fare will be carried at all times providing their name and address can be given in order that the fare due may be collected, together with administrative costs where appropriate, at a later date."

The companies, though private, are perfoming a public service and have to adhere to certain rules.

'No nothing can be done'

Of course something can be done. She should have been let on the bus and it would never have happened to her. Also, much, much tougher sentencing should be available.

A woman is entitled to be out after dark.
She is entitled to be drunk.
She is entitled to be alone.
She is entitled to wear a short skirt.
The only thing that turns her into a victim of rape is the presence of a rapist.

We all agree with this yes? There was a big thread on it just the other day and anyone disagreeing with the above was (rightly, imo) given short shrift.

So all this attributing any blame toward the driver/ passangers is making me really uncomfortableand makes me wonder if there are more people who blame the victim for not keeping herself safe than are willing to admit it.

the blame is 100% with the rapist.

but perhaps if a stink is kicked up bus drivers will be allowed to "let people" off small amounts like this.

dreaded exactly.

but the drive of a porivately owned company is to make a profit, I have seen shops hold back the entire staff for hours because the tills do not balance.

A driver is paid to do a job (I do not generally like bus drivers) but I have known several that would have been hauled over the coals for not having the correct money at the end of the night.

The Driver like it or not was doing his job (and abiding by company rules), he did not knowingly put anybody in a vulnerable position.

SardineQueen no-one is saying tgat what we are saying is that 'man' was determined, on drugs, actively went looking for a woman to attack. I haven't seen anyone say there was no point helping her cause it would have been someone else, I'm saying even if she'd have been helped there would have been someone else.

TheDreadedFoosa I agree with you, it seems the responibilty has been put upon the bus driver and not the rapist

Nothing can be done! I've experienced this and no matter what I'd have done he would still have raped me! So that is why I don't see why blame is.been passed on to others

I have just checked the stagecoach wesbite (stagecoach co-own the bus company involved) and they have the following:

"Children aged under 16 and those people who, in the opinion of the driver, are vulnerable, at risk or in distress, and unable to pay their fare will be carried at all times providing their name and address can be given in order that the fare due may be collected at a later date together with any reasonable administrative costs."

Which is IDENTICAL to the aviva one.

I am certain that I have heard that contractually buses have to do this, as they are serving the public.

He could have let her on, if he had wanted to. He didn't want to.

I have literally just read this and come onto MN to post the same thread!

My first reaction was that the article I read seems to harp on far too much about how the bus driver would not let her off the 20p and she was raped as a result of that. I think it is grossly unfair on the bus driver. I am sure he feels guilty enough about it without being made to feel as though she was raped as a direct result of his actions.

Whilst I think it is a tragic shame that she was in that situation and it led to such an awful event, I think people like bus drivers and othr public service workers are between a rock and a hard place with things like this - they must get asked 'can't you just let me off?' several times a day by people who are drunk, or chancing their arm, or who get abusive and threatening, and the poor driver must make up any shortfall in his float a the end of each shift.

They do not have the time or the authority to make a judgement call on everyone who asks for a favour of some sort - 'can you take a short detour and drop me at my door? Can you let me off the fare? Can you wait while I go to an ATM?, Can you hang on while my friend catches up, she's running for the bus but she has three suitcases?' or whatever.

It was her responsibility to check her purse before the bus came, and it was the rapist's responsibility to not rape her.

BBJ you are talking nonsense.

He could have let her on as per the rules
He could have let her go to the cashpoint
He could have got the 20p from her mum at the end of the journey, as offered

Honestly I wonder at the motivation of people saying this bloke did nothing wrong.

'A driver is paid to do a job (I do not generally like bus drivers) but I have known several that would have been hauled over the coals for not having the correct money at the end of the night.'

But it was all on CCTV, so the driver would be able to explain the cash shortfall. The rules that teh companies should follow should make sure that people late at night are not turned away for a lack of 20p after pleading for 8 minutes and offering to go to a cashpoint. Also these buses should be fitted with machines to take debit and credit cards so that the passenger doesn't need to beg to go to a cashpoint.

And i said it before but i'll say it again...
What if the rapist had been a bit further down the bus route?
What if one stop down was another woman waiting for the bus?
What if in the 8 minutes the bus was delayed the rapist came across her and she was the victim that night?
Would we all be apportioning blame to the woman who held the bus up by 8 minutes cos she was didnt have the fare?

See how ridiculous it is to point the finger of blame anywhere but at the rapist.

SQ

I am sorry but IMO if you are going to put any blame on the driver or passengers then you will have to put some balme on the victim for not having the correct change.

As I satted in my last post I do not like bus drivers in general, but I know enough about them to know that even thought there are posted guidelines, a driver can be given warnings for
being to early at a stop
being late at a stop
giving free or discounted fares.

the list is extensive.

The truth is that no one is to blame for the rape but the rapist.

It was in the early hours, a week before Christmas in the centre of Nottingham. The town, and the transport system, would have been full of rowdy drunks. There's every chance that, to the passengers, this just looked like another drunken incident.

I think the bus driver was a nasty cunt but I don't feel any malice towards other passengers.

Pointing out he was determined to attack someone tgat night is not blaming anyone other than the rapist, it's proving tgat he is the only factor.

i do think putting the onus on the bus driver to decide who is vulnerable is wrong.
a 20 year old man would not be deemed vulnerable, yet he might be getting the bus because otherwise he could be attacked/
(use that as it is something close ot me)

Fanjo SPs is saying exactly that - that there would have been no point in helping her as if she had been helped someone else would have been attacked instead.

I find that baffing.

If I see someone who seems vulnerable I check they are OK. I am really shocked that this is not standard behaviour. I don't think "oh well somoene's got to be mugged / raped so it might as well be them" and walk off.

Just seen your post above Sardine. the thing is what constitutes vulnerable? an elderly lady, confused and wandering in her nightie - yes. A girl so drunk she cannot stand, yes quite possibly, although given the amount hassle and crap they put up with from drunk people you can imagine why he migth be inclined to think of someone like that as a PITA rather than as vulnerable.

But someone who is short of 20p is not necessarily vulnerable. She had the means to get more cash and obviously as it was a night bus route his was not the last bus.

Of course she turned out to be vulnerable, but he could not have known that at the time.

'They do not have the time or the authority to make a judgement call on everyone who asks for a favour of some sort'

As I understand it, she was pleading for 8 minutes. So he had the time to listen and refuse.

sardine I was raped by a taxi driver. I checked he was registered, checked his id, it was a company I used all the time.

But in your view it must have been my friends fault for letting me in the taxi alone. Taxi companies fault for sending him.

2shoes, I think everyone is vulnerable at night, and teh companies need to realise that. They should take out insurance for teh loss in revenue and cover it with a small levy on tickets sold during the day.