Sexual exploitation of teenagers by (mainly) Asian gangs

[edam]

hundreds of young girls are being groomed and prostituted by gangs according to an investigation by The Times]] Only the gangs are predominantly Asian men so the authorities have been very reluctant to either talk about it or act - even now the Home Office 'has no plans' to do any research into the pattern of offending, despite a request by the safeguarding children's board in Derby, backed by Barnardos. Former MP Ann Cryer has been campaigning on this for years but was shouted down with cries of 'racism'.

Afraid Times is now behind a paywall so can't link to the full story but if you have access, it's here down the page under 'UK news'.

Strikes me that the racists here are the officials who are afraid to uphold the law or to talk about this. And that it's yet another example where racism trumps misogyny.

There have been some prosecutions - 56 men convicted in 17 cases. But sounds as if the Home Office doesn't want anyone to find out if the problem is far more widespread.

I still think they view the white girls as less moral and somehow the groomers know it would not be right to groom girls in their own community and it would not be tolerated. it shows a lack of respect.

Hyprocricy - and this where women cannot rely on other women to support them and this is where young women become properly vulnerable.

It's a shame that in this day and age that women don't come forward to support their fellow females.

I'm really surprised that people are falling for this racist rubbish which is anecdotal -the overwhelming EVIDENCE shows that it is white males who are responsible for sexual crimes - and yet we are not seeing headlines with 'white men' in the title.

This is interesting

www.justice.gov.uk/stats-race-criminal-justice-system-07-08-revised.pdf

particularly table 5.4b which gives percentages and shows that everywhere shown the majority of offenders are white - so why concentrate on the minority who are not?

e.g. in the latest year for which we have data, Lancashire police arrested 627 people for sexual offences. 0.3% of these were Pakistanis. That?s two people. 85.5% were white British. In Lancashire, there are 1,296,900 white Brits and 45,000 Pakistanis. This means that 4.163 per 10,000 white Brits were arrested for a sex crime, compared to 0.44 Pakistanis

Also maybe Jack Straw should look a little nearer to home before he makes such remarks

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/jack-straws-brother-found-guilty-of-indecent-assault-on-girl-16-698881.html

it is always assumed that white british people are the ones that harbour racism which obviously some do. but there is alot of racism in the muslim world towards other religions and cultures. i can't put into words how mad it makes me to see on the news the pure hatred portrayed on the news by muslim men whenever some fool says or does something their community take offence to and as for the vicious hatred shown towards the pope int he uk with police protecting them, unbelievable. one of my closes friends is muslim, she has often openly talked to me about how her father hates jews. not that long ago i was in a newsagent in queensway west london and openly on display (although in arabic so i could now read it) were magazines/literature with jewish female charactures on the front cover implying jewish females were sluts etc. imagine an english run newsagent with equivalent publications being allowed for sale. i lived in west london for years and loved the mulitcultural mix although the mix was more west indian, fantastic, the two communities really mixed, friendships etc. i now live in a very muslim multicultural area. barely any mixing at all, and that is not for the want of trying on my part. my close friend who is muslim is a rare thing, she is not practising, she is married to a white english chap and is ostracised by the other muslim mothers as they see her 'refjection by having married a white man' as a kind of insult, they have brought her to tears many times ie she only fasted for ramadam once instead of the full month. they look at her with suspicion. the culture is so far removed from the british one that there is a huge divide. i believe that western women have taken it too far and compare that to the females of the muslim community, there is bound to be misunderstandings of how western women are and how they should be treated. until a few years ago i lived in a predomenantly muslim area and i have to say there were the most unhappiest years of my life. the way the men looked at me or treated me ie just going into a shop or walking down the street and i must add that i dress very covered and plain in baggy jeans etc, i am a tomboy, not that this should make any difference. even when i was out with my husband shopping they would still lear at me, fucking disgusting (escuse swearing but anger has arisen)

kate....actually the default assumption in Britain is that any crime is committed by a white man, unless otherwise stated.

kelway....I went out with a guy who had an Egyptian father and Palestinian mother, he had a Jewish friend who he had to deny to his mother because she would be physically sick if in the same room.

:( ridiculous, but (i am a jew) would be scared to be at my friends house if her father was there, awful, my mother loves my friend and doesn't see her skin colour or care about her faith. i know a girl whose parents are strict christians/practising, they are super racist against alot of cultures and faiths, she has told me some terrible thigns they have said. in direct contrast dh's parents are too extremely religious people but they are in my mind what i would call 'true christians', they are the complete opposite, they wouldn't know how to be racist, they love and would help anyone, whatever they looked like, believed in etc, that is how it should be across the board.

But we're not talking about ALL sex crimes kate1956, we're talking about one specific type. In which Asian men are grossly over-represented.

No one on this thread, or in the papers has said that all sex offenders are Asian, they've said that the majority of people who commit THIS PARTICULAR offense are.

We need to empower Pakistani/Muslim women, who are married to decent men, whose family are truly moral and help them to lead the "revolution" in educating the "bad" men and breaking the culture of silence.

That would be a very, very worthwhile campaign. It could be a Mumsnet campaign that could change the climate in Britain for a great many women.

I bet we could obtain funding and raise the profile in a non sensationalist arena which could help so many women trapped in the clutches of patriarchal men.

kate I don't think anyone is debating the stats - that these sorts of crimes are almost primarily committed by white men.

The discussions that are going on in this thread is the recognition that fairly overt racism is prevalant amongst large sections of non white communities against a variety of people that are seen to be different from them.

IMO the men that have committed these crimes are very racist for targetting white children as they see them as not worth their Pakistani counterparts.

alouiseg if only it were as simple as that

I work as a GP in an inner city socially deprived and multi-cultural community. I see so many Indian and Pakistani women who attend for non specific minor ailments because they are basically unhappy with their appalling home environments. They have a listening ear, are signposted to support services and supported by link workers but 20 years down the line and you are still having the same conversations with them.

Breaking out of this environment when you have poor english, low intelligence and extremely low self esteem is nothing other than impossible.

One reason why we need to make it harder for Pakistani men to mail order a bride from "home". We are enabling abuse.

aloiseg, I utterly agree with you, sadly it is not that simple. Even today, as it stands, in 2011, it is pretty much hopeless.

I can only cite Egypt, but the decline of education, the rise of radical islam as a consequence, filling in the gap left by traditional and more moderate thinking have lead to a real erosion of the place of the female in society.

Now more than ever the pressures are exerted MORE than they were even only 10 years ago, as the DANGERS from the west are perceived as greater.

I'm not the only one to say this, though I can't recall his name, fairly recently an Egyptian philosopher (naturally speaking from the safety of Switzerland) said that to survive all living things have to evolve. Religions are no different. Islam however bans philosophy that goes anywhere near pondering the existence or meaning or proof of god, it is simply to be accepted as truth, fought for, died for, no questions.

This guy said that islam is not moving with the times, it is trying to surpress the tide of modernity, hold back the future, internet, communications, inter-racial communications etc, and for this reason if it doesn't adapt, it will die.

Trouble is, this siege mentality is exactly what fuels fervent islam and where radicalism springs from.

The more the west says that women are human beings too, and deserve to be heard, to drive, work etc, the more the insecure, brainwashed blokes in beards will crack down on their daughters, sisters, cousins, mothers and literally any other female relative that they happen to come across.

Women in these nations/cultures to a greater or lesser extent are taught that this is how it is.

I took a great deal of shite when H suffered from culture shock and clamped down on me. Eventually when it got silly, I started to stand up for myself. That's when I got hurt.

STILL to this day 'H' reasons this away because I raised my voice to him.

This man used to scream obscenities at me down the phone from his office, in front of his colleagues, or would call me at my friends and scream at me, he would shout at me in front of literally every soul that came near me.

If I told him to STFU, or reacted every single person, male AND female said, it's OK, don't worry about it, that's how it is. I showed his own cousin the immense swollen elbow with the black bruise given to me for something inane like asking him NOT to talk to me like shit. The guy didn't even wince at the sight of the ugliest bruise I ever had, he just said H loves you, don't worry.

As one of my first posts on this thread says, by the age of 10 in egypt, the battle for a girl to feel equal is already pretty much lost.

Many of them are so badly conditioned that if when grown up and married off, the H doesn't accuse them of affairs, call them a whore if they are going out looking like that or generally abusing her, she thinks he doesn't care.

I am not kidding about this, I have heard this time and time again.

This is not religious, it is societal. Both muslim and christian women suffer this, sure, not all of them, but a majority nonetheless.

The women themselves are IMHO suffering from Stockholm Syndrome and if you took away their abusers and replaced them with decent upright kind men, they would fight you to the death to get the old bastards returned.

I don't want to say it's hopeless, but i really fail to see what on earth can be done.

Could it be possible that we just have to accept that some of us will be treated like this and that's OK if that's how they want it?

I despair. I really do.

Bloody Hell Hissyfit that is shocking beyond belief. Is that why so many married Muslim women deny the abuse and become complicit in it's cover up?

It should be against the law in this country to marry a first cousin. IMO it is wrong on so many levels.

LMHF are still married to an Egyptian and living in Egypt then? Why can you not leave -are frightened your child will be made to stay with their father?

shrieking in all my years of working, I had never seen so many children with birth defects as I do in my current role, where large sections of the population are married to cousins.

At first, I thought it was just a coincidence. Then I saw a dispatches documentary highlighting the same problem in Birmingham and I realised it was not all in my head.

And what's even worse is this. There are families with an obvious genetic disorder that is amplified by intermarrying and the family still go ahead and marry their kids to their cousins. And it's not just two cousins that marry. Their parents are cousins as well as the grandparents. So the gene pool becomes very small.

And these are just the medical problems. If marriage to cousins was forbidden, you would not have scores of British born pakistanis being made to marry their "home grown" cousins as they wouldn't have any knowledge of potential suitors outside the family and therefore look closer to home for an arranged marriage. So there would be more integration into this society instead of the ghettos we see today in the cities all over the UK.

shreikingharpy I typed a long post about that this morning but I accientally deleted it! IO completely agree - it is a perfectly preventable tragedy but the authorities are afraid to speak out beacuse of racial sensitivities. An absolute joke.

And I completely agree with you as well hypocrisy.

I so wish you hadn't name-changed. You've been so fantastic and honest and informative and on this thread I really want to know who you are!

It's not abuse (to them) if everyone they see does it.

No, I'm here now. he came here last year, but the 8m when I was waiting for him to tie up the loose ends lead me to do a lot of thinking, rediscover MN and I have to say that I have carried on the standing up for myself.

he is leaving, going back there, in less than a month's time apparently.

DS is safe with me, he'll be staying here. H is not religious, he also thinks we are just taking a break... (yeah, whatever) We are not actually married either so no divorce... that's it.

Thanks Alouise, it was also tip of the iceberg..

I was pretty much kept indoors 2-3 weeks at a time, in the end I didn't want to go out, I found it a horrid threatening place, I had a lot of time to watch, observe and think.

I tried, really tried to find a way to accept life there, if I could have found a way to think life OK there, I'd have done it. I was there 3 years.

Basically I realised that it boiled down to either a lobotomy or conversion. Neither of which I'd ever do, and actually H is totally non-religious too, so really only one way then...

my dd's bf is muslim from pakistan, she is 8, they have been bf's since reception. i try hard to be friends with dd's bf mother but it is a quite hard as we have nothing in common but we get on in a surface friendly kind of way. her mother seems so submissive and an atmosphere of almost fear, very strange whenever i have reason to pop round there, i always feel uncomfortable. her husband on the odd occasion he has had reason to collect his dd from our house will never come in, he always insists on waiting at the top of the path, i never know if i should take offence to this or perhaps there is some other reason. recently her daughter who is a really lovely little girl, dropped into conversation how her father was her mothers cousin. i was quite shocked as i didn't think her mother was quite so traditional but there you are. seems so normal in a different culture. personally i don't have anything against this, tbh i don't think it is anything to do with me although i do find it a little strange. it is a shame as i have to make all the effort to arrange their playing together, her mother never instigates their playing together. once she casually said to me her dd never plays with anyone outside of their family, that there is no need as she has so many cousins/siblings. they regularly have cousins over from pakistan, i wonder if or when they will marry my dd's bf off, makes me feel a little sad.

FN, if hypocrisy was ever outed as saying what she said she could actually come to harm!

She can give US a wave when she sees us in her usual guise, can't she?

LMHF I was fascinated by your situation so I did an AS on you, (sorry - too impateinet to wait!)and I'm up to speed on your situation. I know you are back in UK but not sure if you are still with your 'H'. I have found some of your posts incredibly insightful - you sound fantastic too.

kelway, a male may not enter a house where there is a woman he is not related to, especially if she is alone, without her H or DB of DF.

I have been back in the UK over 18m and still struggle to look men in the eye.

Oh and that atmosphere of almost fear, is probably exactly that. Terrified of doing the wrong thing, cos there will be hell to pay when she gets home.

Cheers FN, that is so lovely of you to say!

last death rattle of the relationship, we are trying for polite, and failing mostly.

Not long to go.

littlemisshissyfit - thanks! blimey, i should've guessed it might be something like that although i was never alone, it was the last few years when dd has had a party and he has come to collect his dd, there were always lots of others in the house. he doesn't 'look' to be super religious ie dress/beard etc, i thought to look at he looked a little less religious, just goes to show eh. the whole thing is so tragic. i always think her dh will think of me or my dd being bad influences but we are 'clean living people', ie i don't drink, my dd has been brought up well and is polite and gentle, to be honest, whenever i go round there i always feel as if i am not good enough. i have been married for over ten years etc etc, but i don't think however 'good' my life has been that i would appear worthy enough to seek approval to be friends with his wife even if i did find we had more in common than chatting about our dd's. really sad, i'd love to be able to help somone but how on earth than we do anything to help. whenever i am out and about whereas english old ladies will chat ie if i am in a queue in the post office in direct contrast if there is a muslim lady behind me i often try to make eye contact and chat to be friendly but i more often than not get the feeling that they don't want to engage in conversation with me, i am a friendly soul too

But at least you can get out, right? Unlike so many.

Have you even dared to think about what might happen when he ask, a few months/years down the line to take DS to visit his family? That for me would be the biggest stumbling block in ever having children with a man from a very different culture with family back home. (Easy to say when have never fallen in love with one!), but I've heard to many traumatic stories.