Sexual exploitation of teenagers by (mainly) Asian gangs

[edam]

hundreds of young girls are being groomed and prostituted by gangs according to an investigation by The Times]] Only the gangs are predominantly Asian men so the authorities have been very reluctant to either talk about it or act - even now the Home Office 'has no plans' to do any research into the pattern of offending, despite a request by the safeguarding children's board in Derby, backed by Barnardos. Former MP Ann Cryer has been campaigning on this for years but was shouted down with cries of 'racism'.

Afraid Times is now behind a paywall so can't link to the full story but if you have access, it's here down the page under 'UK news'.

Strikes me that the racists here are the officials who are afraid to uphold the law or to talk about this. And that it's yet another example where racism trumps misogyny.

There have been some prosecutions - 56 men convicted in 17 cases. But sounds as if the Home Office doesn't want anyone to find out if the problem is far more widespread.

fellationelson - have you seen the film with sally field 'not without my daughter'?

I have just come across this thread and read much of it but am confused by one point. Some posters are talking of incest, but they seem to mean relationships between cousins? That's not what incest is, so are people actually saying that some families are condoning and covering up relationships between siblings and parent/child?

kelway - Lots of people aren't interested in coming inside and having conversations with their children's parents. My DD has had several friends whose mums just drop and run and have no interest in knowing the people their child is spending time with! I think it's upto them really, no need to read into motives or feel upset about it.

This has been one of the most interesting threads I have been on in a long time, and very sensible/ sensitive too

This has been one of the most interesting threads I have been on in a long time, and very sensible/ sensitive too

Luckily he has no family, only child, parents died years ago. He knows I'll not be bringing him over anytime soon. He has to come back here at some point for visit etc, so he'll see him then. If he doesn't he doesn't. He has another son, who he has not been able to see (and not fought to see either) so I'm not worried.

Kelway, if you have a dog, some muslims have issues with that, if there is alcohol anywhere in the house, others can have problems with that. Some simply don't want to interact with non-muslims, for a variety of reasons. H only has egyptian friends, Egyptians are very xenophobic. Don't take it personally.

I do recall a discussion that I rapidly shot down in flames on a email forum where western convert women in egypt were discussing how they treat non-muslims and were quoting hadiths that call for forcing kaffirs (non-muslims) on to the narrowest part of the path or gutter if there is no space for both to pass. Or how not to return a greeting from a non-muslim.

I'm afraid I saw red. I called them all treacherous and treasonous to their own nationalities... I asked if that was an acceptable way to treat their own mothers, grandmothers, sisters, aunties and cousins? I told them that all of them were born into good loving christian families and to sit here and discuss how to force others onto the road, or how to ignore a heartfelt greeting was shameful. I used to call it competitive islam.

hardly surprising that in the end I felt I was best of resigning from the group... I did have a few bun fights though, was a great stress reliever!

megapixels, i take your point, but there was more to it than that, at the time (a few times) when he wouldn;t come in he acted really odd, kind of nervous/awkward, i think that what the other poster said (sorry, can't remember your posting name!) made sense and fitted in with his behaviour. also, i didn't use the word incest when saying my dd's bf mother had married her cousin, i just acknowledge that she had married her cousin which in my culture isn't (i don't think?) allowed, certainly unusual, i just find it unusual, i don't think i have critisised it, i am an open minded person, things that are different to what is 'normal' to me may surprise me but i won't pass judgement on that, i am aware that this is normal in ie pakistan. it came into my head if i had married either of my 3 cousins......just the thought of it!! but as i have said, this is just because it is different to how i was brought up

kelway, I read the book while living there, i never saw the film, but I bet Sally was really good in it! Horrific story!

Thanks to everyone for their contributions on this thread, I have found it totally riveting.

On the subject of the Pakistani men abusing white girls, is it true that Islam says that non-Muslims do not deserve respect? Let me add that I am atheist and do not understand any religion, but if lack of respect of non-Muslims is excused by Islam this might be another reason why it happens.

Fascinating insight from hypocrisy's story. I also saw the Dispatches programme on the results of first-cousin marriages in the UK and despaired. Interestingly, the same problem with very high rates of birth defects happens in the polygamous Mormon communities in the USA, where first and second cousins from the same gene pool have married for the last 200-odd years.

littlemiss', i would have loved to have watched that convo'. in my experience having over the years observed a few people change their religions in all instances the women have been REALLY religious in their newly found religion, so proud and in some cases, over the top so what you said didn't surprise me in that sense. isn't it awful how some people look down on other peoples religions/cultural behaviour. dd is friendly at school with a little girl who is a jehovah's witness. my dd often quotes things that this little girl has said to her, some of which aren't very nice ie 'oh that reliigion isn't a real religion' when they have been doing something at school on a relidion, i am not sure if she is quoting something she has been taught

littlemiss', i know, one of those films that really stuck in my head. based on a true story although obviously some of it must have been altered, but still. i know you can't always control who you fall in love with but it certainly makes you think. i found the film hard to watch and kept hiding behind a pillow in parts

A thousand splendid suns by khaled hosseini too was very interesting reading.

What nationality/ethnicity are the punters?

The"punters" are the same race/religion/culture as the men that groom them, so Pakistani/Muslim.

The girls are passed around the men, their families, their friends.

When I was 17 I worked and lived in a large hotel in Middlesbrough and this was going on before my eyes, though was too young to realise exactly what it was at the time.

Good looking Asian guy worked with us, he was married to an Asian girl and had 2 kids. Anyway, he wooed a friend of mine and they started a relationship. He showered her with gifts, took her away to lovely places but also totally controlled her. In the end she stopped coming out with us, he would accuse her of flirting with hotel guests, he would beat her up. Then to keep him happy she also had to sleep with his Father and brothers. He said he would leave her if not.

Vile man.

No - when I mentioned incest in our family I was not implying marriage between cousins.

IME, extreme suppression of freedom of thought and behaviour can lead to fairly dysfunctional behaviour.

Everything Hypocrisy said rings true to me. Have recently befriended a traditional Muslim from Pakistani origins and the stuff she is going through is scary and mirrors almost everything Hypocrisy stated. TBH what she has told me has shocked and angered me - probably prior to meeting her the only muslims I knew were were liberal and more western so previously I would have been in the 'can't stereotype' camp but I now understand that their are some cultural problems regarding some people/muslims from Pakistan or of Pakistani origin, not all obviously. She herself has only realised that how they are being controlled and how the religion has been used to control them and shape their thinking has really nothing to do with the proper teachings of Islam and she has had almost an awakening and now standing up for herself against her family by trying to follow the true meaning of her religion from the Koran and not from what her culture has previously ingrained in her.

Stereotypes galore here!

Hypocrisy - I feel sorry for you. Your family sounds truly horrendous. Child abuse/incest? Words fail me.

Interesting that I categorically stated my family/friends are just good kind people. Just average joes really.

No one mentioned it. It obviously suits some people to froth at the mouth at these 'muslims' and their strange ways.

Majority of posters on this thread have stated they know very little about Islam.

mistyop I can understand your frustration about your "normal" background being ignored. But I think you are missing the point.

It is very hard for a lot of people to know what really goes on out there - even people like yourself from a Pakistani background. It is because these things are never openly discussed. I feel nervous being so open about this, hence the name change.

My background is not atypical. Why do I think this? Because it is similar to many families in the community where I was raised. In addition to this, it has been substantiate by my work as a GP amongst predominantly working classed Pakistani families. I have an extremely privileged role as people will tell me intimate details of their lives so I know how much of htis sort of stuff is out there.

And as for my family - I love them all and they are certainly not horrendous as suggested! But I can see why you may think this as you do not have the full picture.

PS - maybe I do have an agenda which is this.

I feel that a lot of "political correctness" about race has been more damaging to integration and assimilation than the BNP.

A small personal story about this. When I went to secondary school in an all girls' catholic school they had fairly strict uniform rules. When my father's request for me to wear trousers instead of a skirt was declined, I was ecstatic as I sure as hell didn't want to be the girl that stood out. ( There were Indian catholics there so I wasn't the only brown face)

It's the easy option to hide behind PC and be all guardian like about it. The harder part is to open your eyes and see the bigger picture.

There has been no frothing mistyop.

It's is NORMAL that your background is not backward, oppressed and controlling, the majority of households ARE like this in the UK, I'm sure. What you have is HOW IT OUGHT TO BE. That is why no-one remarked upon it.

Just as 1 in 4 women are abused by their OH, that means 3/4 DON'T suffer from abuse.

No-one here has had a pop at Islam, and as you said, it has nothing to do with it.

You seem to be trying to be incensed where there is no reason to be.

Lets be careful not to stereotype muslims here. The Muslim world is large and although not denying or downplaying what Hypocricy says there are also many muslim families who walk the line between the secular nature of life in the UK and their private family lives very well.

I was brought up around muslims (my family are not) and yes back in the '80's I remember racism from ignorant young muslim men against my mum (igorant as they see a brown face and assume she's muslim) heckling her her in the street etc for her dress. But I temper this by remembering the heckling she got from equally ignorant young white men.

I went to school with a girl who desperately wanted to go to uni but her parents stopped her just because her older brothers had married outside their community and they were hanging on to her to marry her to someone from within the community.

But also the majority of muslim families I know were keen for their daughters to do well and do their own thing and find their own dh v(within the community was the assumption) in time. Young men who were well brought up and encouraged to do the best for themselves and their families. I know professional women of Pakistani origin who have never married and had boyfriends living with them (family not happy but get on with it) etc.

I also hate political correctness but the amount of negative stories people are coming out with in relation to this story is odd and I think that's what mistyop is linking in to.

These men are racist and opportunistic women hating sex abusers and they need to be stopped. We have laws and we must use them.

I'd also like to see these things happen:

1. women (in particular) coming to this country need to the learn the language for their own sakes. FFS if you don't speak the language of the land and have kids here, the kids can go around doing what they want and just fob the parents off if they have no english language skills. That must stop. I cannot imagine brining up my child in a country where I don't speak the language - I'd lose quite a bit of control and overview of what my child is doing.

1. - why are these girls so vulnerable? That has to be addressed. OK, I'm 42 but when growing up I'd never let an older guy approach me and back then there were plenty around. That's what I was taught. But our modern culture means that girls from 12-14 are talking about who's had sex and who's not had sex etc. The presssure is immense. This didn't really happen back in my day and it does worry me.

1. Noone shoulod be under the impression that racism is a white person's disease. Noone should feel immune from being tackled on racist behaviour.

No communities should be allowed to thrive in isolation from others - and that means all of us. I can cite my experiences because I've never once lived in a deprived or racially segregated area. Unfortunately our demographics and schooling encourage such segregation.

and Mistyop - you and others have been guilty to a degree of the same in shouting about western society/media/Tv as if all of us wander round in Bikini's shagging any thing that moves.

Turn the TV off it offends you, or as in my case bore's you - don't buy the sequinned boob tube for your 5 year old - Make your choices, as the majority of us do in this decadent (oh if I had the chance) hedonistic society and feel bloody grateful to have a choice - because these girls/women and a lot of Muslim women around the world have no choices.