Sexual exploitation of teenagers by (mainly) Asian gangs

[edam]

hundreds of young girls are being groomed and prostituted by gangs according to an investigation by The Times]] Only the gangs are predominantly Asian men so the authorities have been very reluctant to either talk about it or act - even now the Home Office 'has no plans' to do any research into the pattern of offending, despite a request by the safeguarding children's board in Derby, backed by Barnardos. Former MP Ann Cryer has been campaigning on this for years but was shouted down with cries of 'racism'.

Afraid Times is now behind a paywall so can't link to the full story but if you have access, it's here down the page under 'UK news'.

Strikes me that the racists here are the officials who are afraid to uphold the law or to talk about this. And that it's yet another example where racism trumps misogyny.

There have been some prosecutions - 56 men convicted in 17 cases. But sounds as if the Home Office doesn't want anyone to find out if the problem is far more widespread.

Margaret - forced marriages and honour killings aren't just a Muslim issue. There have been cases where victims and perpetrators have been Sikhs or from other groups (also happens amongst Eastern Europeans IIRC).

OMG I know that, I'm just saying it's a pattern of how women are viewed.

I know that FGM is definitely cultural but FGM is justified by 'Islam' wrongly but it's still part of Muslim culture.

If this were about white men I'd be talking about lads mags, Hooters, lap dancing, pissed up youth etc.

If this were black men I'd be raising the Jamaican view of women, absent fathers, etc

It's the madonna/whore issue again. If young men are allowed to grow up with that midset, trouble will ensue.

I grew up in an area which was roughly 50% Muslim. I did encounter the whole "white girls are easy" attitude. It exists, thankfully in a minority but it is there.

I disagre these things mainly happen 'in the north' (where is 'the north' exactly?)

I live in the south and experienced this kind of thing happening in areas such as Slough and Luton. It is still happening. It is acknowledged quietly and those of us who work in social care deal with it without making a fuss because we are not permitted to make a fuss.

Ergo BNP moves in and makes ridiculous inflammatory statements.

Riven, I mentioned 'community leaders' because that is how they described themselves to me, they were community leaders of the Asian communty in Luton. That is how they defined themselves. I spoke to them about my experiences and they denied they had happened, then they acknowledgd that if they had happened then it wasn't racism. I was probably mistaken for a prostitute therefore that is why I got spat on and abused and threatened in public.

That tells me everything I need to know about how respectable looking people with a responsibility for representing 'their people' (whoever they define them to be) see the problem.

MissQue 'I think it's unfair on the UK's Asian population to blame them all for the crimes of a few.'

So do I. So do we all. No-one is doing that. No-one if finger pointing at Sikhs or Hindus, or people from South East Asia. No-one is blaming all Muslims. Or even all Pakistanis.

We are simply speaking out loud the undeniable truth that where this specific problem is concerned, there is a definite connection between the cultural/religious ideologies of young British Muslim men (largely from Pakistan) and the way their view their female white non-muslim counterparts.

People are being accused of accepting BNP doctrine, because they're saying that Asian men shouldn't be singled out in terms of sex crimes in the UK. I didn't think anyone was saying that particularly.

I thought this thread was most specifically about the lack of action on this matter because of the racial issues involved by the predominatly Asian perpetrators.

If this was a group of white young men who were specifically targetting vulnerable young asian girls, there would be uproar from all sectors of the community. Race would undoubtedly be singled out as a motivator and there would be no brook held with regard to it being just sexist or mysognistic.

We are being naieve and racist in reverse, if we don't recognisee the cultural and racial motivation in this particular batch of crimes.

I despair for a multi-cultural society where racism can only be flagged for the minority race. Racism exists. It exists across all cultures. Educated, enlightened people try to avoid it at all costs. But when those costs are the lives of vulnerable children or murder victims who are white or Polish or European rather than black or Asian, something is seriously wrong with justice.

Totally agree Huffy.

Well said Huffy.

"These people come from uneducated, backward looking families. All the youngsters are expected to leave school, work and get married from Pakistan."

missyop would it surprise you to learn that I am a doctor?

This is one of the big problems - most articulate Pakistani people do not come from this type of background so these issues are never really addressed.

It is far more common than you think and IMO the outline of Pakistani culture I gave is the majority in this country. This is because most people who are educated or middle classed do not feel the need to come over to the UK.

I am in the minority in that I have broken away from it all but as far as the customs and culture is concerned - I think I am very much in the majority.

Communities who move abroad routinely get stuck in a time warp.

I'm british (anglo-asian) and in my experience I've got to say I've seen one (aborted) attempt at a an arranged marriage in my 42 years in my (dual) communities.

My neighbour used to rent out a room to a very nervy, isolated southern european girl from a small rural village who'd escaped an attempted forced marriage. She was soon joined by her twin and the minute I anounced I had a boyfriend from her part of the world they both ran off again. Three weeks later a group of very nasty men turned up threatening my neighbour but the girls had long gone. Police were involved.

I'm married to man from that region and I've seen shitty treatment of women, a cousin marriage and a false marriage and more still. But I'd never put it down to their religion although it does play its part (like women hating other women like mil cutting off her own daughter for divorcing her abusive acholic husband, in shame).

Alot of what these men have in common is a rural, isolated and poor upbringing.

Men controlling women is a global thing - each country and each community is made up of women who are trying hard to ensure that women are seen as legal beings with independent thought, ambitions and desires.

Women are often exploited because they can be. In some countries is it because the law forces famales into vulnerablility. In the case of the UK females are not made vulnerable because of the law but because our society has young girls who are lost, neglected and unloved, migrant communities where women are prevented from tapping into society (via language) and add to that our sexualised and crass popular youth culture and that's what makes them vulnerable and we need to address that along with hateful men who feel more manly by exploiting women.

And we need to do this robustly.

Hypocrisy I am embarrassed to say that I viewed your first post with a great deal of scepticism, I honestly thought such an account may have come from someone with an agenda. Although you had no idea, I apologise.

In addition to your post there are some very interested and informed opinions on this thread.

I am forever fearful of my own prejudice as I have many issues with religion on any level, certainly where it negatively affects women(that'll be most then!). I see more and more public displays of anti British and commitment to Islam, as an atheist I find it hard to understand anyone putting so much faith into rules penned a millennia ago. It makes no sense to me, but I accept that for some God is very real. I find much of the burka wearing, head covering, circumcising, separating men and women in this religion really worrying. Such practices I do not associate with Britain and yet I know that these symbols are often fuelled by identifying with Islam and some by being anti western. They are symbols of segregation, as far as I'm concerned.

So I try and come to this debate with a fresh and open mind. All new trends of the criminal and exploitative kind deserve to be explored, without such they will continue to grow. I can definitely see the link between Asian culture which is driven by being Muslim.

Fortunately I do not in an area plagued by the BNP and have no reason to ever encounter any members.

And margaret I'd therefore hope you'd find this in other religions too as I have seen.

Good God yes, this morning I had the misfortune of listening to radio 4. Adam and Eve, Sodom, Sarah, Abraham....shudder.

I live in an area that is middle class white, not too far from a large Muslim community. I have lived in Golders GReen but was too busy partying to notice the vast Jewish population, I tended to party in Goodge Street and return home at night. I can only report what I can see, I can only comment on my own experiences. I am aware that being a law abiding peaceful Muslim must be hard in some areas and communities too, it's the nice people that seem to suffer the consequences of the nasty minority, especially when that community is a minority.

If we were discussing a particular sect of Christianity and let's say these men were Bible belt American we would all be asking how that community was using and teaching Christianity.

Me too, lived many years in GG. Loved it.

But I still don't blame religions but rather the people who take that faith's name in vain (i'm agnostic by the way).

I still firmly believe that it's an issue about women's rights globally. We are not where we should be at all.

Not we're not!

I just requested that my local Total garage cover up their vile mag covers. The guy behind the counter looked amused. I had to tell him how amusing I thought these dangerous images are, they're everywhere...and did he find the objectification of women as something to laugh about or teach our children? I think I ruined his day or at least gave him a story for after work!!

i think what i don't like about it is that the men groom white girls. I suppose the Asian girls are more chaperoned but i still don't like this aspect and see it as racist on their part.

also slightly off the thread but what do people think of the women who is accused of blaspemy in pakistan who is a christian and faces death.

Oh and my dh has just returned from work lobbying a muscian from his country - to no affect - (this 'amazing' guy has been here two years with a music degree (oh groo) from his country and is better than anything this country has ever seen (sic) and although I actually do have contacts here I'm disregarded).

I'm British and a classicly trained musician with contacts but it holds no value as I'm not from his country and female in this country (hence a shite mother and shite intellect) and so my education is worth jack shite etc.

So just believe me when I say that disrepect of women is global in this country.

I think it's a case of exploiting the weakest members of society Alemci.

The girls they groom aren't just any white girls. They are vulnerable, often from dysfuntional backgrounds.

If we understand that then it's clear to me it's not really driven by racism. Opportunism maybe?

In the course of the investigations I hope people get to the root of it all and don't let stereotypes and personal prejudices get in the way.

I find it soo dehumanising when I hear people refering to 'Pakistani men'.

NO. You are referring to crimianl gangs that consists of people who were born and brought up in Britain. They happen to come from a Pakistani background.

Alcemi if you don't like the fact they groom white girls how would you feel if they were grooming their own girls.

They are all girls, surely?

I agree the grooming of white girls is somewhat opportunistic, but I also think there is a racist element - or at the very least a lack of respect for white British culture. They do see these girls as morally and culturally sub-standard purely because they are white, British and non-Muslim, and therefore 'easy meat'. I find it hard to defend that attitude against charges of racism.

Mistyop - they don't just happen to come from Pakistan though, do they? We have thousands and thousands of other ethnic/racial/religious groups here too, and always have had. Why has this never been an issue amongst Jews, or Poles, or the Irish? I'm quite sure it has, to some small degree or other, over the years, but not enough to have become a recognisable phenomenon that has caused so many agencies to become involved at once.

It is a race thing, it's a racial stereotype being exploited by these men.

giveitago....perhaps we wouldn't know if it were their own girls, it would bring too much shame.

"The girls they groom aren't just any white girls. They are vulnerable, often from dysfuntional backgrounds"

Actually I saw a documentary on it. Some are vulnerable and some are from "normal" families and are seduced by gifts and attention from older men in flash cars.

I think the point i have been really trying to get across is the hypocrisy ( hence the name!) in so many of the Pakistani community.

An example of this would be that my own mother is fully aware of some of the issues that have occured in our family - incest, infidelity and marriages of convenience for a UK passport. ( oh I forgot fraud!)

Yet if she ever found out that my kids eat bacon and sausages I think it would send her into an early grave.

This is the warped morality that my own family and many others have up and down the country.