Please will you kindly support and advise me, as I try to help a friend sort out his home?

[EatingTheElephantInChunks]

Yesterday I started to try to help a friend sort out his home. If I tell you that it took me nearly 3 hours to clear a space on the bathroom floor about 3ft x 4ft, you will probably understand how things are. Today I did a little better. In about 2 hours I cleared another space the same size, which meant I could open a cupboard. Two shelves were almost empty, so I was able to clean those and use them for storage. I will carry on next time with the other 2 shelves and continue clearing the bathroom floor.

It was very satisfying to get rid of a whole binbag of rubbish yesterday and a half bag today, plus a bag and a half of recycling, and a small bag of confidential waste to shred. There is a folding storage crate of things to keep so far, but I'll go through that again to see if I've missed anything that should be thrown out or recycled.

My friend has got into this situation after many years of serious illness and close bereavements, has no family left and few friends, certainly not really close ones. He has been at the stage for several years where he doesn't have visitors. He needs many repairs and much decorating doing, and is getting to the stage where carers visiting would be helpful. I am hoping to get him to the stage where that will be possible. He is such a nice guy, and it's a shame that life has gradually got smaller and smaller for him over the years. It must be terribly lonely.

I feel honoured that he has trusted me with the truth of how things are. I can't talk to anyone IRL as I know it's essential to protect his privacy, and I have changed my username in case anyone makes the connections. I could do with some mumsnet wisdom and support! I have never felt such a sense of achievement over a bit of floorspace 3ft x 4ft, but equally the enormity of the task hit me.

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
The author - writing under the pseudonym EatingTheElephantInChunks - claims and owns the copyright of all her posts dated on and after 14th August 2018 as her intellectual property and as a moral right and which are all her own individual and original work. Reproduction in whole or part or any other use is strictly prohibited without her prior written permission.

[Edited by MNHQ at posters request]

I think it's very kind of you to help, but while you're helping, have a think about how much time and headspace you want to devote to this. You already miss your DC, and there's days and days to go yet. I've done this kind of work for pay, and even then I've got quite annoyed when it's been one step forward two steps back IYSWIM. How might you feel if you get it done and your friend can't keep it clean so it gets bad again? What would you do if you decided you'd had enough? Is he helping you? Is he actually able to help you? I know you said he doesn't want people to know, but that's his choice, think how you might feel in a few weeks about his choice of privacy impacting on your DCs time with you, their Mom. What does your partner think? If your friend is frail, or disabled, is he accessing all the help available? I'm all for people helping each other especially friends, but you'd do well to be absolutely clear what your limits are and how you will say when you have reached them. What you are doing isn't ordinary cleaning and would cost at least £20 an hour on a commercial basis; that's some huge gift you're giving.

The recycling bin is full and I've filled 3 more bags with it. There's a rose from the garden in a clean jug on the clean windowsill, and you can see yourself in the mirror should you want to. That is not to say that the bathroom is finished yet!!! 🙇

Thanks Cleaner and Nacreous. Just off to get something to eat and put my aching feet up for half an hour, but hope to be back on the thread later.

Too tired to get back to the thread last night, apologies. I hadn't slept much for the last couple of nights, (a DC and thinking about all this), so a large G&T helped me unwind and drop off last night!

I didn't achieve everything in the plan for yesterday, but that seems to be the way the cookie is crumbling. I achieved some of it though, and will be back on it again today.

I'm a bit fed up of being in the bathroom, (!), but I'm reluctant to move on to the stairs until it's finished. When I say finished, I don't mean completely finished, as that means a plumber, a decorator, and a proper clean. I'm just aiming to get it ready for that stage - so, clearing it, getting rid of rubbish and recycling, sorting everything else, and a basic clean. A clean to clean, IYSWIM?

Today's plan is to clear and clean the last 2 cupboard shelves, clean the rest of the loo, (I've just done the cistern top), clean the floor around the loo, and clean the window and evict the dead flies/cobwebs there, (I've just done the windowsill/ornaments). If there's time, the next thing will be clearing and cleaning inside the bath, (I've been able to do some of the bath surround, tiles, and panel so far), and finishing the sink. The walls, ceiling and paintwork all need dusting for cobwebs and washing down, a new bulb, lightshade and curtains are needed, plus the blind washing, but I'm limited about what I can reach without tall stepladders, and I'm not sure how much more time I should spend on the bathroom at this stage.

I'm mulling over the points raised so far, thank you all. It seems a bit silly to have put a rose in a jug on the windowsill, when there's still all that to do, but it does look cheery, and is perhaps a bit of a reward and motivator...

Another day, another bin bag of compacted rubbish out. Plus a carrier bag and a half of recycling, and a large carrier bag of expired medicines taken back to the Pharmacy for disposal. The bathroom STILL isn't finished, but it's hopefully now a dead fly free zone. Many disgruntled spiders and elaborate webs, especially in the window - I did thank them for all their hard flycatching work, as I dismantled their homes!

Just had a good tip for pet disinfectant, over in The Litter Tray.

Another night, another G&T.....

I'm a bit with cleanerswin on this one. It's great you're doing this but do make sure that this is working for you. Hoarding is a mental condition that is a lot more complex than a depressed person who has had life get on top of them for a while.

We did a similar clean for my uncle after he had a major operation, to make life manageable and clean and to allow a carer to come in. He was nervy about it, but so grateful, we'd changed his life etc. 6 months later he had refilled the house, beyond the level from the past 10 years. The carer wouldn't come in. We spoke with a counsellor and professional organiser who work in tandem on these types of cases - it's very slow going and the success rates are not high. We paid for them. Same bleeding outcome. We gave in and accepted that sometimes, this is who someone is and we could love him but never go near the house again.

I don't want to depress you after all your work, and perhaps this is different - but please do only give the time and energy that you can spare, and proceed on the basis that all things may return to how they were.

You are doing a lovely thing for your friend but I'm going to add a warning similar to PPs.

I helped a relative in a similar way a few years ago and initially they were very grateful. Said that it had given them a fresh start and they were feeling very positive, would never want to go back to how it was etc.

Within a few weeks they'd started to grumble about how they wanted some of the things that had been thrown away ( I didn't throw anything out without asking them first). A few months later, their flat was starting to fill up again and now, two years on, it's back to how it was before. They don't invite anyone in anymore and still make comments about missing the stuff that they agreed to throw away.

You are giving up a lot of your time for what may only be a short term improvement for your friend.

Just to reiterate what others have said - You sound like a great friend to help out in this way.

Some practical advice re cat litter - if your friend has mobility issues, it may help for you to pre-fill litter tray liners and ‘layer’ them in a spare tray for storage. This way he just has to bin the old and put the new in the tray without lifting heavy bags etc.
Can’t post links, but if you search Catsan Smart Packs you’ll get an idea

Thanks Lexie.

That's a great tip about the litter tray too - I understand what you mean and hadn't thought of that. Thanks again.

Another voice to say you sound like a lovely person, but please make sure you prioritise your and your family's needs. I'm always a bit cynical when I hear of women breaking their backs cleaning up men's messes for them because they couldn't possibly pay an outsider to do it for them; apologies if that sounds mean; I mean it in a nice way honestly .

Thanks Doodling and Stuck....I think!

I wish I hadn't read your replies just before bed, as they make difficult reading. Having said that, I'm very grateful to you for sharing your experiences, especially as I have no previous experience of my own in trying to help someone in this situation.

It's certainly given me serious food for thought, and I will be thinking about it today. One thing I don't know is if he actually is a Hoarder, or if he is 'just' someone who's life got very difficult, so he wasn't able to be on top of the housework and it's gradually built up since. I think or rather hope that he's the latter, but obviously can't be sure. I might come back at some point with a couple of questions for you both, if that's OK?

I can't help hoping that someone pops up with a more positive outcome - ideally lots of them....

Thanks, Thatsnot. Don't worry, I know exactly where you're coming from and I couldn't agree more!

I don't think that's the situation here though. It could easily be a woman friend and my response would have been the same. He does deeply regret not being on top of it himself, and one thing he mentioned is he should have got a regular cleaner for a couple of hours a week years ago and he'd probably never have gotten into this mess. He never imagined that he would get into this situation though - he thought he'd always be able to manage. One strong possibility now is that he can get a regular cleaner once the house is in the better state and he can face a stranger coming in. I hope that will help him never to get into this situation again. At the moment they'd need to be blindfolded, which would make doing the job difficult! I don't think at all that he's wanting to avoid paying someone but rather he's deeply embarrassed to a level that he can't overcome. It's not that he won't pay me or doesn't want to pay me, it's that I wouldn't want that at all as his friend.

I’m afraid that I was going to comment the same as some PPs, that if this hoarding is a symptom of an underlying issue (which as it sounds severe seems likely) then you may get things clear but it’s highly likely the house will get into the same state again.

I am also concerned about you giving so much of yourself when it sound like you have a lot else going on in your life too. Are you really the only person who can help? What’s a realistic commitment of your time and energy that you can make to this without compromising other things, most importantly your own wellbeing?

Sorry to be negative, you sound like a wonderful friend.

The clutter clearing does sound extremely slow- it’s so hard to tell without photos but are you perhaps spending too much time deciding and sorting? Would a hippo bag make things faster as you could just bin bag everything, without worrying about sorting for recycling, and chuck it all straight in?

Even 50% of the amount of ‘stuff’ you are describing on your progress must be rubbish, surely?

I know you said this has got worse in the last few years, but can you remember it ever being very different?

for all your work

I apologise for not working fast enough NoSquirrels, and promise to do better in future.

What a lovely, kind thing you are doing for your friend OP. I'm just going to share some experiences which may or may not be relevant. My Dad is a hoarder, inherited the trait from his mother who filled a 3 story georgian townhouse with 60 years worth of clutter - no joke, I'm not sure she ever threw a newspaper or item of post away in her life! I've cleared my parents house out several times over the years as have some other kind friends and family members. I actually have refused to do it again as it was so hard the last time - I fully appreciate how exhausting and difficult it is so kudos to you for pressing on! Just a few things:

-I would focus very much on the usable/important areas of the house rather than trying to clear completely, so kitchen, bathroom then make paths into the living room/seating area and to his bed. This is the part likely to make the most real difference to his living conditions.

-Please, please don't be upset and offended if, as others have said, the house reverts into previous condition once you are finished. Hoarding is a true compulsion usually linked to other areas of mental ill-health so while it's great to help someone get started, if they are still unwell and the underlying cause is not addressed they may well slip backwards. Some of my parents friends have been really angry at the waste of their hard work when the house is as bad as before just months after they spent weeks cleaning it which is totally understandable but upsetting/shaming for my parents to do deal with too, on top of lots of other issues in their lives...

-I developed a technique for clearing the clutter - this may not be what you want to do - but I simply swept whole heaps of junk straight into heavy duty bags and into the car to the tip. They live 10 mins away from a tip so I could do multiple trips in a day - I was on first name terms with the staff by the end! It's 100% not what I would do in my own house (and not very environmentally responsible either) but weirdly enough this seemed much easier for my Dad to deal with as a disposal method for his precious, beloved clutter than painstaking sorting and tidying as you are doing - it's counter intuitive but I think because it was over quickly and he didn't have time to think about it too much. Skips didn't work for us as (a) filled up far too quickly/not big enough and (b) Dad could see his stuff sitting out there on the drive and found it really upsetting (kept catching him trying to retrieve things )

Keep us posted on progress!

Also sorry, on the cleaning front, I'm a big fan of cheap but powerful bleach based cleaning products for truly filthy surfaces - don't waste money on nice smelling stuff you'd use at home, industrial is the feel you want. Once you have the junk cleared from a floor/surface pull on your yellow gloves (I've double gloved in the past to feel a bit less icky!) and really go to town with the bleach everywhere. You can leave it soaking for a few hours in stubborn areas - not great for the surfaces and can stain but sometimes it's the only way to get things up...

If you are able to get carpeted floors sufficiently clear (not something I always succeeded in!) and you have the budget, hire a rug doctor carpet cleaning machine to clean the carpets. My parents carpets were properly grim after many years of abuse but a days effort with the rug doctor restored them to an acceptable if shabby state and it's quite satisfying (if knackering!) to use. Less satisfying to come back a month later and see massive wine stains (where the carpet is visible under 'stuff'), mind you but ignore that part!

Eating I’m so sorry - I absolutely didn’t intend to make you feel bad!

The thing is, without photos it’s so hard to judge, but I just can’t insgine a bathroom so crammed with useful items that it would take so long to sort through and not just be full of genuine rubbish for the most part.

If what’s in there is a mix of all sorts of things, then it definitely does sound like hoarding and not just ‘things getting on top of them’ and that’s going to need a tough mental attitude to the clutter on your behalf recognising that it will probably fill up again, if you see what I mean.

Absolutely not my intention to make you feel bad - just to see if you can manage your time and emotional input into it. I think you’re being really kind.

I mentioned the hippo bag and black bags straight into it as I think skips could be a problem too, like a PP says, seeing all the things sitting out there. But perhaps straight to the tip with several bags each session is the way forward?

Another thought - if your friend is happy to spend money, then concentrate on the clearing and do no cleaning, and as a room is done get a cleaner in to deep clean just that room?

OP what a task!
Have you had a chance to look at the hoarding link?

A friend did this for her mum, who has complex mental and physical health issues, and the mum has more or less maintained it, which was a surprise. She definitely wasn't a hoarder...

I'm always a bit cynical when I hear of women breaking their backs cleaning up men's messes for them because they couldn't possibly pay an outsider to do it for them

I think you've got completely the wrong context here, so it's inappropriate to bring it into the equation - this isn't a bloke being too lazy to do housework, and too stingy to get a cleaner, it's a person who has a serious mental condition. A person who collects excess amounts of stuff would never in a million years pay for a cleaner, if only it were that simple. It has probably taken elephant ages just to gain her friend's trust to start this process, starting one bin bag at a time.

I've seen the programmes where grown men and women are sobbing just thinking about parting company with their security blanket of those treasures. Breaks my heart. Elephant you're lovely!

Just popping on with a progress report and to say many thanks to maxelly and thanks again to NoSquirrels. I hope to return to the thread later to reply fully, but having most of the weekend off to spend with the family. I want to do a couple of hours starting this morning though if possible, in part because it will help me work off last night's fish, chips and a cold beer indulgence!

I did a few hours yesterday afternoon, including cleaning most of the loo and floor and wall around the loo. I also went through the items to save again in the crates and bowl, and realised some more of them should actually be thrown away. It's hard putting unopened good quality toiletries in the bin, (and there's sadness realising the waste of money and the pleasure he could have had using them over the years), but everything was at least 2-3, (possibly 10 or so in some cases), years old, and so past their best. I've now got a crate of kitchen things, a crate of pet things, and a crate of miscellaneous things like books, paperwork, keepsakes, spare bulbs etc. I also put some essential shopping that I brought in yesterday into a crate so it doesn't just get lost. The crates will stay in the bathroom for now, until their contents' proper homes are (hopefully) clear and clean.

It took me ages yesterday just to go through a bag of small stuff. I sat on the (clean!) bathroom floor on a few newspapers I'm using as a sitting/kneeling pad, (we live and learn - my poor knees from the first few days), and sorted it, willing myself on. Most of it was rubbish and recycling, but I saved a couple of important items so it was worth the time and effort in the end. It's amazing what had ended up in the bathroom, including 3 new saucepan lids - I assume the saucepans are in the kitchen, but who knows?! I also had to rearrange the bottom shelf of the cupboard as I realised the door wouldn't quite shut the way I'd done it yesterday. The good thing is that all the bathroom items could finally go in there out of the crates and I could shut the door.

Half a compacted bin bag of rubbish and 2 carrier bags of recycling to go out. Small triumphs. The spiders had already started weaving again in the window though, little horrors.

Apologies all, the 11.30 post is basically a duplicate - I don't know why it's done that. I've asked MNHQ to delete it, but in the meantime just read the 11.48 one to avoid completely wasting your time!

PS NoSquirrels - No need to apologise, but thank you anyway. When I first read your post, I was a bit 'oh...,s/he thinks I'm useless', but then straight away I reread it and realised totally what you were getting at. So don't worry, my response was in fun, but thank you. Will reply more later.

Better get a move on...